Need some help with index

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georgeluc

Member
Im sorta new and i was wonder if i could get some advice. I have just learned basic strategy for my local casino and now i need to learn a counting method. I know most of you will recommend the hi-lo but i would rather use the zen method. Is this link the correct way to learn the zen method http://www.gamesblackjack.org/strategy/card-counting/zen-count.php ? It tells you the tags and how much to increase your bet. Now once someone has learns basic strategy and the counting system, to increase advantage more one should learn index play correct? Now what i need to know is how to learn index play. I have a link here which people have told me is the correct numbers for the zen system http://blackjackforumonline.com/content/Zen_Count_Indices.htm
... Index is when you deviate from basic strategy and play accordingly to the true count correct? What i don't understand is how to learn index play. The website just has graphs and stuff like 13/5 in an ace box. What i would like to know is what exact hands do i hit, double, stand, DS, or split according to what the TC is? Example, if true count is 3+ and i have a 14v9 BS says to hit, but the website just says 20 in the box. Does that mean if the running count is 20 i stand? Also what's with some of the number in the boxes e.g., if i had a 17 v A it says -13/-10* which is at the top of the page. Please explain this to me as simple as possible as im not to great with bj understandings yet. Any help would be great :)
 
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HsiaoDi

Well-Known Member
Two numbers with slash just means h17 or s17

Index play like you said is deviation from bs... The example you gave.. Would mean hit until tc is 20...

Do you self a favor, spend more time with bs, spend a little time in a casino before you spend time on index plays...

Ps. Read through the forum.... Get books...
 
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AR Nick

AR Nick

Active Member
georgeluc said:
What i would like to know is what exact hands do i hit, double, stand, DS, or split according to what the TC is? Example, if true count is 3+ and i have a 14v9 BS says to hit, but the website just says 20 in the box. Does that mean if the running count is 20 i stand?
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Each of the matrices on that page you linked are titled ("stand", "double down, hard totals", etc). Whatever the title is, that's what you do when the true count has reached that index.

Also, if you're interested in Zen, I recommend getting a copy of Blackbelt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder and reading it cover to cover. Admittedly, my depth of BJ literature is nothing impressive, but of the books I have read, that one shaped my game the most.
 
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georgeluc

Member
i think i understand now, so if i have 17 v A and it's a S17 game, i stand on -13 TC; and if it's a H17 game i deviate from BS and stand on 17 if the TC is -10 correct?
 
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A

AussiePlayer

Well-Known Member
georgeluc said:
So if i have a 17 v A it says -13/-10* which means i stand on dealer s13 or dealer hard 10 when the count is -13 true count or 10 correct?
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When playing blackjack where the dealer stands on soft 17, you hit 17 Vs. A if the true count is -13 or below, stand if TC is above -13.

When playing blackjack where the dealer hits soft 17, you hit 17 Vs. A if the true count is -10 or below, stand if TC is above -10.

Yes, you've got it now. Seriously though, learn the count tags, then practice the running count and then true count conversions first. Only when you can do all of this properly should you start thinking about using indicies.
 
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AR Nick

AR Nick

Active Member
georgeluc said:
so what if the TC goes over 20 i still do what the titles says right?
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Correct. If the true count is higher than the index, you make the deviation (for your convenience, the title of the respective matrix).

There are a few exceptions where you only make the deviation when the TC is below the index. I think one of them was splitting 8s against a ten or an ace. I didn't bother to memorize them since their occurrence is so rare. Should be on that page, though.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
AR Nick said:
Also, if you're interested in Zen, I recommend getting a copy of Blackbelt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder and reading it cover to cover. Admittedly, my depth of BJ literature is nothing impressive, but of the books I have read, that one shaped my game the most.
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Yes great book - the best there is... EXCEPT he needs to know that the TC calibration and indices are not ideal - we would provide him with the correct TC calibration and indices here. zg
 
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