nevada homeland security bill...
- Thread starter gehrig
- Start date
Automatic Monkey
Banned
It all depends on how they choose to define "fraudulent". It's always been illegal to have fake ID for use in committing fraud. But if the purpose of the ID is to obtain a player's card under some name that is not banned for card counting, which is a non-fraudulent activity, the ID is not fraudulent just false. But we all know how a Nevada judge is going to interpret this.
the word used in the articles was ...
possession, not use or intent to use. at least it would seem that use to rent a hotel room, use to obtain credit [access "comps"?], or use in a hotel/casino to obtain access, might be become a felony.
that might include juveniles using a "bad" i.d. to gain entry into a tavern.
possession, not use or intent to use. at least it would seem that use to rent a hotel room, use to obtain credit [access "comps"?], or use in a hotel/casino to obtain access, might be become a felony.
that might include juveniles using a "bad" i.d. to gain entry into a tavern.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Re: the word used in the articles was ...
Interesting, being that merely possessing something cannot be fraudulent, and none of the activities you mention represent a fraudulent use. E.g., renting a hotel room under an assumed name, so what, if you have paid for the services rendered you haven't defrauded anyone. Redeeming comps might be a stronger argument because the purpose of the comps is to reward some people and not others. Using fake ID to buy alcohol when underaged is even tougher, being that although underaged drinking is illegal, it isn't fraudulent as long as you pay for your booze. It looks like this is going to have to undergo some legal review and clarification of the words they use. This is a danger that always exists when they right laws to feel good instead of to do good.
Interesting, being that merely possessing something cannot be fraudulent, and none of the activities you mention represent a fraudulent use. E.g., renting a hotel room under an assumed name, so what, if you have paid for the services rendered you haven't defrauded anyone. Redeeming comps might be a stronger argument because the purpose of the comps is to reward some people and not others. Using fake ID to buy alcohol when underaged is even tougher, being that although underaged drinking is illegal, it isn't fraudulent as long as you pay for your booze. It looks like this is going to have to undergo some legal review and clarification of the words they use. This is a danger that always exists when they right laws to feel good instead of to do good.
the greater issue is one of fake i.d.
it seems that we are at war, leastwise there are multiple groups who have invaded our country so as to perform terrorist acts. hence, the ability of any peace officer to properly identify a suspect is welcomed by those who have nothing to conceal. producing false i.d. would justify further inquiry. same as a fellow who had multiple driver's licenses in multiple states, because of multiple violations. since a licensed (liquor) establishment is required to verify the age of all guests, the guest must either furnish satisfactory i.d. or immediately leave.
same with nevada gaming. not commonly known is that even the beverage servers, beyond the dealers, pitstiffs, security and surveillance agents, are licensed by the nevada gaming commission. they are required to inquire of any guest of questionable age, that they produce i.d.. failure to do that, and the joint is fined, and the individual who didn't ask for the i.d., may lose their ability to work in nevada gaming.
as a sidelight to that, while in college, i worked as a bartender at an 18 year old beer bar. the "record" for the oldest guy "i.d.'d" was 34. not my record.
consider if i had a stolen credit card in my possession. even if i wasn't apprehended in attempting to use it, if found on my person, why wouldn't i expect to be arrested ?
the issue is that one may legally change his/her name. perhaps if some of the posters had traveled in (mostly socialist) europe, you might understand that they've been requiring police registration of all guests, since at least the 60's. the hotel keeper, even pensione keepers, customarily made available to the police, usually each evening, the travel documents of registered guests. typically the guest would surrender his passport at check in. same on an international passenger carrying ship (even "cargo ships"), to be held by the purser, saved for inspection by officials of any visited port.
i stopped carrying fake i.d.'s when i reached majority.
it seems that we are at war, leastwise there are multiple groups who have invaded our country so as to perform terrorist acts. hence, the ability of any peace officer to properly identify a suspect is welcomed by those who have nothing to conceal. producing false i.d. would justify further inquiry. same as a fellow who had multiple driver's licenses in multiple states, because of multiple violations. since a licensed (liquor) establishment is required to verify the age of all guests, the guest must either furnish satisfactory i.d. or immediately leave.
same with nevada gaming. not commonly known is that even the beverage servers, beyond the dealers, pitstiffs, security and surveillance agents, are licensed by the nevada gaming commission. they are required to inquire of any guest of questionable age, that they produce i.d.. failure to do that, and the joint is fined, and the individual who didn't ask for the i.d., may lose their ability to work in nevada gaming.
as a sidelight to that, while in college, i worked as a bartender at an 18 year old beer bar. the "record" for the oldest guy "i.d.'d" was 34. not my record.
consider if i had a stolen credit card in my possession. even if i wasn't apprehended in attempting to use it, if found on my person, why wouldn't i expect to be arrested ?
the issue is that one may legally change his/her name. perhaps if some of the posters had traveled in (mostly socialist) europe, you might understand that they've been requiring police registration of all guests, since at least the 60's. the hotel keeper, even pensione keepers, customarily made available to the police, usually each evening, the travel documents of registered guests. typically the guest would surrender his passport at check in. same on an international passenger carrying ship (even "cargo ships"), to be held by the purser, saved for inspection by officials of any visited port.
i stopped carrying fake i.d.'s when i reached majority.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Re: the greater issue is one of fake i.d.
Very true, being in possession of any falsified or inaccurate document automatically makes one a suspect. But it doesn't make one guilty of anything. Celebrities used to do it all the time, have credit cards and fake ID under different names to protect their privacy when making hotel reservations and such. Done to protect one's privacy it is just fine, if you do it to skip out on a bill that's a different story.
Doing it to get away with being a card counter is somewhere in between; what we do is not illegal but entering the premises after we've been read the trespass act is. What isn't illegal is to use it to dilute the effect of being Griffinized. If you are playing under a fake name and you get busted, that fake name is going to be entered into their computer and it won't follow you down the street where you'll be using a different fake name. Your picture will of course but that's a lot harder for a computer to recognize.
Incidentally, when I was underage I drank like a Freemason, but being I looked about 5 years older than I was I never was asked for ID.
Very true, being in possession of any falsified or inaccurate document automatically makes one a suspect. But it doesn't make one guilty of anything. Celebrities used to do it all the time, have credit cards and fake ID under different names to protect their privacy when making hotel reservations and such. Done to protect one's privacy it is just fine, if you do it to skip out on a bill that's a different story.
Doing it to get away with being a card counter is somewhere in between; what we do is not illegal but entering the premises after we've been read the trespass act is. What isn't illegal is to use it to dilute the effect of being Griffinized. If you are playing under a fake name and you get busted, that fake name is going to be entered into their computer and it won't follow you down the street where you'll be using a different fake name. Your picture will of course but that's a lot harder for a computer to recognize.
Incidentally, when I was underage I drank like a Freemason, but being I looked about 5 years older than I was I never was asked for ID.