New Team, need advice

W

WRBJ

Active Member
Hey,

Some of you might remember my previous post about using a dealer to hole card for us and such. After hearing all of the "do not do this" remarks i got, i decided to cut him loose and just focus on the team.

So i come here now asking for advice on how to get my team of 5 people able to beat this very bad game of blackjack.

Bank Roll = 10,000$

The rules are:

2 tables, 10$ - 300$ and 25$-500$

2 Deck
No DAS
Hit Soft 17
Split up to 4 times
Aces split once, one card each
No surrender
Blackjack pays 3:2

The team so far knows the High Opt II count an the Hi-Lo count. After some research we learned that the HOII count does produce more of a win rate then the Hi-Lo count, but not so much that we will use it. Due to the easy Hi-Lo counting system we have gone with it, and just surrendered the loss of chips.

We are willing to do wopping in, and just sit down play and waiting for a good count.

So i ask everyone, if hi-lo is not really the count that we should be using... what should we do? Should we wopp in or just play?

I just want to know how we can use the team to beat this casino. Even if the amount gained is not that much, we still want to gain as much as possible. So what techniques should we use? What exactly should we do?

I would like as detailed operation as possible if that is ok. We have done our research, and we know what we would do without the advice of the forum, but we would still love and we think we need the advice just to clarify so that we do not fail at this. Thanks in advance.
 
A

ah...craps

Member
I'll try and help since your use of "wopp" and "wopping" definately made my day. (below is on the assumption that the post isn't a joke)

1) You want to find out what the penetration is...this is as important as the rules (which aren't great).

2) The Hi-Lo count system is fine, you don't need anything more advanced. Though you will want to use indices...search "illustrious 18".

3) I've heard Ken Uston wrote a good book on team play.
 
R

rukus

Well-Known Member
WRBJ said:
I would like as detailed operation as possible if that is ok. We have done our research, and we know what we would do without the advice of the forum, but we would still love and we think we need the advice just to clarify so that we do not fail at this. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
given this statement, i highly recommend you dont waste anymore of that 10k bankroll on a team. the fact that you dont realize penetration can turn your "very bad game" into a good one scares me. finally, if you dont know there's no such thing as wopping (though it made my day as well), i highly doubt you are ready to even enter a casino for basic counting.

if someone wants to pat you on your back and tell you that you and/or your team are indeed ready to hit the felt, then i wish you good cards...

just my 2 cents.

(ps - i suppose you dont need to know what WONGING is if you are only playing 2Ders).
 
I

InPlay

Banned
WRBJ said:
Hey,

Some of you might remember my previous post about using a dealer to hole card for us and such. After hearing all of the "do not do this" remarks i got, i decided to cut him loose and just focus on the team.

So i come here now asking for advice on how to get my team of 5 people able to beat this very bad game of blackjack.

Bank Roll = 10,000$

The rules are:

2 tables, 10$ - 300$ and 25$-500$

2 Deck
No DAS
Hit Soft 17
Split up to 4 times
Aces split once, one card each
No surrender
Blackjack pays 3:2

The team so far knows the High Opt II count an the Hi-Lo count. After some research we learned that the HOII count does produce more of a win rate then the Hi-Lo count, but not so much that we will use it. Due to the easy Hi-Lo counting system we have gone with it, and just surrendered the loss of chips.

We are willing to do wopping in, and just sit down play and waiting for a good count.

So i ask everyone, if hi-lo is not really the count that we should be using... what should we do? Should we wopp in or just play?

I just want to know how we can use the team to beat this casino. Even if the amount gained is not that much, we still want to gain as much as possible. So what techniques should we use? What exactly should we do?

I would like as detailed operation as possible if that is ok. We have done our research, and we know what we would do without the advice of the forum, but we would still love and we think we need the advice just to clarify so that we do not fail at this. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Your team is well suited for Pizza Boy work or anything else in that fits your bunch of wopp misfits. Truly you are joking with this post. Do you know anything about the game other then it's name.
 
Tarzan

Tarzan

Banned
Insufficient Bankroll

InPlay's usual style of commentary, designed specifically to offend while giving little in the way of any useful information is always a big help.

$10,000 is not a big enough bankroll for ONE person, much less a 5 person team. This is just not enough money to allow any sort of substantial betting without a HUGE ROR or allow for the huge and crazy fluctuations that occur. You perhaps need to evaluate this further.
 
I

InPlay

Banned
Tarzan said:
InPlay's usual style of commentary, designed specifically to offend while giving little in the way of any useful information is always a big help.

$10,000 is not a big enough bankroll for ONE person, much less a 5 person team. This is just not enough money to allow any sort of substantial betting without a HUGE ROR or allow for the huge and crazy fluctuations that occur. You perhaps need to evaluate this further.
Click to expand...
You sugar coated it for him. I gave it to him staight. In all reality you know he has a band of misfits and probally does not know anything about BJ. Look at the game he was talking about if that don't tell you anything you have a screw loose somewhere. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's a joker poster.
 
MoneyPlays

MoneyPlays

Well-Known Member
Doo-Wopp

InPlay said:
You sugar coated it for him. I gave it to him staight. In all reality you know he has a band of misfits and probally does not know anything about BJ. Look at the game he was talking about if that don't tell you anything you have a screw loose somewhere. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's a joker poster.
Click to expand...
So are you saying that this poster has told a wopper of a story?

I'm gonna wopp out on that one. :laugh:
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
WRBJ said:
Hey,

Some of you might remember my previous post about using a dealer to hole card for us and such. After hearing all of the "do not do this" remarks i got, i decided to cut him loose and just focus on the team.

So i come here now asking for advice on how to get my team of 5 people able to beat this very bad game of blackjack.

Bank Roll = 10,000$

The rules are:

2 tables, 10$ - 300$ and 25$-500$

2 Deck
No DAS
Hit Soft 17
Split up to 4 times
Aces split once, one card each
No surrender
Blackjack pays 3:2

The team so far knows the High Opt II count an the Hi-Lo count. After some research we learned that the HOII count does produce more of a win rate then the Hi-Lo count, but not so much that we will use it. Due to the easy Hi-Lo counting system we have gone with it, and just surrendered the loss of chips.

We are willing to do wopping in, and just sit down play and waiting for a good count.

So i ask everyone, if hi-lo is not really the count that we should be using... what should we do? Should we wopp in or just play?

I just want to know how we can use the team to beat this casino. Even if the amount gained is not that much, we still want to gain as much as possible. So what techniques should we use? What exactly should we do?

I would like as detailed operation as possible if that is ok. We have done our research, and we know what we would do without the advice of the forum, but we would still love and we think we need the advice just to clarify so that we do not fail at this. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
You have not done enough research, in that you have left of the most critical piece of information- the penetration! Your game is a good one if the penetration is good and a bad one if the penetration is bad.

Your bankroll is sufficient. This is a small casino and they are not going to tolerate 5 guys laying heavy spreads on them every day. You are going to have to get by with small action and spreads, and avoid hitting them all the time in the same way.

High-Low is sufficient, but because of what I just wrote I'm going to be the contrarian and say you will be better off with HO2. The reason is you are going to have to finesse this game, and compared to a shoe game more of your income is going to come from smart play and less of it from big spreads. H02 will help you make better insurance and playing decisions, by a significant amount. But if you've already made your decision High-Low will work too.

Team play/Wonging- You are not going to be doing very much of this. Your Wonging should be limited to walking away from the table when the count goes bad, early. The team play that you see in movies and TV shows is not what you would be doing in a double deck game. The value of your team in the beginning should be limited to 1) sharing bankroll. 2) Rotating faces- you don't want one guy there all the time, certainly not on the same shift. You can avoid having the same guy play on the same shift more than once every couple of weeks if you are careful, and this is important. Later on, you can get your team into tricks like card-eating and distracting the pit. But you want to do as little signaling out there as possible. Ideally, if you are there with a partner both of you should be able to know exactly what to do just by watching the cards.
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
InPlay said:
Look at the game he was talking about if that don't tell you anything you have a screw loose somewhere...
Click to expand...
Oh, you must mean the game where, to you, apparently no mention of doubling rules, no mention of pen, no mention of indexes or not, no mention of whether back-counting or not is permitted and no mention of a ramp is mentioned under any scenario is irrelevant and allows you to conclude the OP, or me, has a screw loose somewhere.

Thanks for setting me free so I'll never have to ask such irrelevant questions again. I never knew I had so many screws loose all this time worrying about such irrelevant stuff lol.
 
I

InPlay

Banned
Kasi said:
Oh, you must mean the game where, to you, apparently no mention of doubling rules, no mention of pen, no mention of indexes or not, no mention of whether back-counting or not is permitted and no mention of a ramp is mentioned under any scenario is irrelevant and allows you to conclude the OP, or me, has a screw loose somewhere.

Thanks for setting me free so I'll never have to ask such irrelevant questions again. I never knew I had so many screws loose all this time worrying about such irrelevant stuff lol.
Click to expand...
The truth shall set you free. Speak the truth and you will be a better person. Praise the Lord!
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
Tarzan said:
InPlay's usual style of commentary, designed specifically to offend while giving little in the way of any useful information is always a big help.

$10,000 is not a big enough bankroll for ONE person, much less a 5 person team. This is just not enough money to allow any sort of substantial betting without a HUGE ROR or allow for the huge and crazy fluctuations that occur. You perhaps need to evaluate this further.
Click to expand...
Meh. 10k bank is doable IF you know what you're doing. $50 an hour or so with acceptable risk.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Cherry7Up said:
Really? Only if using team play? Sounds pretty good (too good?) to me.
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Not at all. 100 times your max bet is a rule of thumb for something approximating full Kelly. A max bet of $100 might be all these guys can get away with in this casino, maybe even less. The team aspect is irrelevant in this case, the viable option is to attack the game as a confederation of individuals.
 
itakeyourmoney

itakeyourmoney

Well-Known Member
WRBJ said:
The rules are:

2 tables, 10$ - 300$ and 25$-500$

2 Deck
No DAS
Hit Soft 17
Split up to 4 times
Aces split once, one card each
No surrender
Blackjack pays 3:2
Click to expand...
I have just a few comments/questions for you and for the wiser members here as well.

First, listen to what people here are saying about the importance of penetration. If you are going to attack this casino, try to get your dealer friend on board again (though perhaps try to only give him a small cut, since his job is relatively simple) and get him to give you great penetration, that'll be his whole job. The better the pen, the better the game.

Secondly, this is for you and for others as well. Are there larger casinos nearby? In your post you said that there are 2 tables -- by this do you mean two different table types or two different physical tables? If you're playing in a casino that has only two separate blackjack tables it may be worth it to spend a little traveling to a larger casino with many more tables, and likely better rules as well. (To the other members: would any of you advise this as well?)

As for tactics, you won't need more than one player at a time, by the time you "wopp in" :)laugh:) they'll already be shuffling.

Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

Itake
 
I

InPlay

Banned
zengrifter said:
Who let THIS joker back in? zg
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Your -- -- did it! Fill in the blanks anyway you want. I have been gone for a couple of days practicing my mojo and voodoo at the casino. It has been pretty powerful as of late. I have a 9 trip wining streak going. Wish me luck. Don't worry I will always be here for your enjoyment. I will make time for you.
 
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