New to counting lookin for advice

[Amad99]

Hey all. I started practicing counting about a year ago, and now that i'm 21 i've been going to the casino and I love it but I have some questions. I play single deck, dealer hits s17, blackjack pays 3:2, I been using the Hi-Lo count. Counting the cards comes very easy to me using the Hi-Lo, I can do a deck in under 20 seconds no problem. I get the count easy on the tables, convert to TC and all. My problem is, is I don't really see the results after the past few months of playing about 3/4 nights a week. Overall i'm down. I play 5/10 dollar minimum, for about 4-6 hours a night. I don't fully understand "betting spread" but I increase my bet by 5/10/15 depending on the raise of the count. But basically what i'm saying is that I seem to do better when I don't count, because whenever I have a count of about +6 and above ( which on a single deck with half the cards gone would be +12, correct? Please correct me if i'm wrong) I increase my bet, not ridiculously high, but I seem to lose more when the count is high and win more when the count is low... lol.

I know that i'm counting the cards correctly, so that's not my issue. Is this just some losses that I need to expect? Do I need to fix the way I'm betting? Or is there a better system of counting (which I feel I could handle) which would give me more accurate results?

Also, when playing single deck, the dealer reshuffles every 3 or 4 hands. I read on here someone made a comment that he "leaves the table when the count reaches -1 or lower" There are only single deck games where I play, Do I table hop every couple hands? Or do I sit out until a re-shuffle? Or do I just play the minimum until the count gets high and increase my bet? ( Which is what I've been doing, maybe it's part of my problem)


Thanks for reading and sorry for my ignorance as I am new, but I love blackjack :grin:.

 

[kewljason]

Hey all. I started practicing counting about a year ago, and now that i'm 21 i've been going to the casino and I love it but I have some questions. I play single deck, dealer hits s17, blackjack pays 3:2, I been using the Hi-Lo count. Counting the cards comes very easy to me using the Hi-Lo, I can do a deck in under 20 seconds no problem. I get the count easy on the tables, convert to TC and all. My problem is, is I don't really see the results after the past few months of playing about 3/4 nights a week. Overall i'm down. I play 5/10 dollar minimum, for about 4-6 hours a night. I don't fully understand "betting spread" but I increase my bet by 5/10/15 depending on the raise of the count. But basically what i'm saying is that I seem to do better when I don't count, because whenever I have a count of about +6 and above ( which on a single deck with half the cards gone would be +12, correct? Please correct me if i'm wrong) I increase my bet, not ridiculously high, but I seem to lose more when the count is high and win more when the count is low... lol.

I know that i'm counting the cards correctly, so that's not my issue. Is this just some losses that I need to expect? Do I need to fix the way I'm betting? Or is there a better system of counting (which I feel I could handle) which would give me more accurate results?

Also, when playing single deck, the dealer reshuffles every 3 or 4 hands. I read on here someone made a comment that he "leaves the table when the count reaches -1 or lower" There are only single deck games where I play, Do I table hop every couple hands? Or do I sit out until a re-shuffle? Or do I just play the minimum until the count gets high and increase my bet? ( Which is what I've been doing, maybe it's part of my problem)


Thanks for reading and sorry for my ignorance as I am new, but I love blackjack :grin:.

Welcome to the board, Amad99. No need to apologize. We have all been where you are at.

Need to know a little more info about your game to figure out if you are doing enough to beat it or not. Are there doubling restrictions like double on 10, 11 only or can you double on any 2 cards? Can you double after split? Surrender available? And most important. Penetration? You mentioned dealer shuffling after 3-4 rounds? Is that with just you and the dealer playing or a full table?

Oh, and about sitting out hands. Can you sit out until the shuffle without drawing attention? If so do it. Don't play negative counts if you don't have to. If it draws attention then you may have to raise that exit point or play all hands at minimum wager. Playing all, will require a bigger spread to beat the game.

 

[Amad99]

Thanks for the reply kewl,

I forgot to mention that I play according to basic strategy, have all that memorized, but I vary my bet, like if the count is +4 and above, i usually don't hit with 12 v 2 or 3, etc. Or if the count is -4 and lower, I'll hit with 15 or 16 more.

You can double on any 2 cards, only 1 hit on split aces, yes you can double down after split, I know what surrender is but I'm not sure if it's available I can ask next visit. With penetration it's basically just until the dealer realizes he doesn't have enough cards left for the next round. Usually with a full table of 6 or 7 players it's 2 hands, or when it's me and the dealer or one other person then i'd say at least 75-80% penetration, which brings up another question I had, is it better to be one on one with a dealer, or on a full table? Once i had a TC of +20, bet big, and the 2 guys on both sides of me flipped blackjack, while I had 15 v Dealer's 19. I was quite upset, but also kinda felt good because I felt like I was at least counting right and probably made the right move.

 

[Amad99]

Yes I can sit out without drawing attention. I sat out several hands last night and the night before no problem. But it depends on the dealer, sometimes the dealer will kinda get a little upset or pressure me into playing.

So you would suggest sitting out, then starting with the minimum bet after the shuffle, and then either betting higher with + count, minimum with even count, and sitting out with - count?

 

[kewljason]

Yes I can sit out without drawing attention. I sat out several hands last night and the night before no problem. But it depends on the dealer, sometimes the dealer will kinda get a little upset or pressure me into playing. So you would suggest sitting out, then starting with the minimum bet after the shuffle, and then either betting higher with + count, minimum with even count, and sitting out with - count?

Wow, I was just about to tell you not to tell where this game is. lol If you know how to edit the post I would do that. :laugh:

my advise: sit out as many negative counts as you can. And raise your bets a little earlier. Maybe true count of +2 and get your top bet out by a true count of +4. If you wait too late to raise your bet, the frequency of those big wagers/advantageous situations will not be enough to over come all of the hands played at a disadvantage.

 

[Amad99]

LOL just edited that. Thanks for the advise, Do you know of a betting spread I could use? I want to be a little more of a robot, and a little less of a gambler.. I don't like playing 5 dollar minimum and then when the count gets to +whatever i say... ah screw it how about 17 bucks..

And do you prefer more or less other players at the table?

 

[kewljason]

LOL just edited that. Thanks for the advise, Do you know of a betting spread I could use? I want to be a little more of a robot, and a little less of a gambler.. I don't like playing 5 dollar minimum and then when the count gets to +whatever i say... ah screw it how about 17 bucks..

And do you prefer more or less other players at the table?

Less players is better. You will get in more hands deeper into the deck where the higher counts are more likely to occur. On the site features on the left, click on Blackjack School and read through it. A lot of information that will answer many of your questions.

 

[Severity8]

KJ he edited it but its still in your quote!

Sev~

 

[kewljason]

KJ he edited it but its still in your quote!

Sev~

thanx. fixed

 

[Amad99]

I've been going earlier in the day during the week and I've made friends with a young dealer. I play with her 1 on 1 and one time the count was way low after like 2 hands and I asked her to shuffle the cards and so she smiled, looked to see where her boss was, told me to "sshh" and shuffled them. I kept playing for a couple hours, and she would shuffle anytime I asked. Is this normal?

I went to another table, where another young dealer was, I could tell both were very inexperienced and I asked her to shuffle once and she did.

Anyways, if the dealer will shuffle whenever the count is low I can only play high counts. I'm still playing SD, Double any 2 cards, NDAS, hit S17, no surrender, same as mentioned above. I've been using the Hi-opt 1 count and keeping track of the Aces seperate in my head. I've been using 5 dollar units, with a bet spread of 1-5. count is +2 I bet 10. Count is +4 I bet 20 and so on.... But I keep losing... and losing.. I bet big, I get 20, dealer hits 21. I bet big I get 18, dealer gets 20. And sometimes I bust myself with 13/14/15 when dealer shows 10. last night leaving the casino I cursed counting and swore it didn't work and wanted to quit but... I wanna go back to my lil' asian friend and come out on top. I know it can work and I wanna stick with it. Can anyone help me out? Any suggestions of what I can do? Am I playing wrong, or am I just having expected bad nights? thanks.

 

[BJgenius007]

I've been going earlier in the day during the week and I've made friends with a young dealer. I play with her 1 on 1 and one time the count was way low after like 2 hands and I asked her to shuffle the cards and so she smiled, looked to see where her boss was, told me to "sshh" and shuffled them. I kept playing for a couple hours, and she would shuffle anytime I asked. Is this normal?

Not normal. Not only you would get her fired, but you two were going to the jail if got caught.

 

[Amad99]

Oh wow. didn't think it'd be near that serious. Looks like i'll not be returning to that casino, but there's plenty to choose from.

 

[tthree]

How about RoR

Maybe this is a session RoR issue do you have a loss limit. It is a very bad idea to play without enough money.

 

[HockeXpert]

Not only you would get her fired, but you two were going to the jail if got caught.

Written up yes but jailing a dealer/player for shuffling on - counts is a bit harsh. Maybe in Korea or Singapore.:laugh:

 

[Amad99]

Maybe this is a session RoR issue do you have a loss limit. It is a very bad idea to play without enough money.

My bankroll is 2,000. divided into 400 $5 units. In a session i've never played with more than $300/60 units. most i've lost in a night is 44 units, most i've won is 12 units. But i've been hanging out on the losing side for a couple months now. Tonight I broke even. played with 1-5 spread, sat out ( - ) counts. Several times I had a +5 count or higher, bet accordingly, sometimes played 2 hands... and lose with 19/20 to a dealers 20/21. I don't know if i'm just drawing the short straw repetitively or what. But I feel like I did better tonight than last night because I'm standing more on stiff hands vs dealer's 7+ when count is higher.

 

[21gunsalute]

Thanks for the reply kewl,

I forgot to mention that I play according to basic strategy, have all that memorized, but I vary my bet, like if the count is +4 and above, i usually don't hit with 12 v 2 or 3, etc. Or if the count is -4 and lower, I'll hit with 15 or 16 more.

It doesn't sound like you're even playing Basic Strategy correctly. You need to follow Basic Strategy to the letter unless superceeded by indices which you should learn.

 

[tthree]

In case you dont understand RoR, thats not your problem if you dont have to leave because you lost your session bankroll or lost to much that night. I agree with 21gunsalute. First become efficient at basic strategy. Buy or make up a card FOR YOUR GAME and use it as a crutch til you know it without thinking. This site has a great tool for that called BASIC STRATEGY ENGINE. Click on that and enter the rules and number of decks for your game.

Once youve got that down, learn some play variation based on the count. The illustrious 18 lists the 18 most valuable indices to the player. These indices list where you can reap the most gain from an index. Some because they are very frequently made decisions, others because they either have a lot of profit or curb loss in a very bad situation. I dont play single deck. Im an east coaster and the pitch games arent very playable.

Can someone gave her the single deck illustrious 18 indices for HILO. Amanda you must provide the rules , I know you did once but Im not sure they were right. You said hit s17 was a rule. Dealer hits 17 is usually referred to as H17 while dealer stands is S17. I assume for a single deck game you meant H17 but you were ambiguous on that rule. What about surrender? Not as useful in pitch games but if it is offered, surrendering hands properly on larger bets can make the difference between a winning session and a losing session.

 

[Amad99]

It doesn't sound like you're even playing Basic Strategy correctly. You need to follow Basic Strategy to the letter unless superceeded by inbices which you should learn.

I play basic strategy through all 0 counts, But when the count is +12 and I have 15 v T, and there's only a few cards remaining, I know i'm gonna bust if I hit. You're saying I should follow basic strategy to the letter in that situation? I've searched for single deck indices, but mostly all I can find are for multiple decks.

 

[Amad99]

In case you dont understand RoR, thats not your problem if you dont have to leave because you lost your session bankroll or lost to much that night. I agree with 21gunsalute. First become efficient at basic strategy. Buy or make up a card FOR YOUR GAME and use it as a crutch til you know it without thinking. This site has a great tool for that called BASIC STRATEGY ENGINE. Click on that and enter the rules and number of decks for your game.

Once youve got that down, learn some play variation based on the count. The illustrious 18 lists the 18 most valuable indices to the player. These indices list where you can reap the most gain from an index. Some because they are very frequently made decisions, others because they either have a lot of profit or curb loss in a very bad situation. I dont play single deck. Im an east coaster and the pitch games arent very playable.

Can someone gave her the single deck illustrious 18 indices for HILO. Amanda you must provide the rules , I know you did once but Im not sure they were right. You said hit s17 was a rule. Dealer hits 17 is usually referred to as H17 while dealer stands is S17. I assume for a single deck game you meant H17 but you were ambiguous on that rule. What about surrender? Not as useful in pitch games but if it is offered, surrendering hands properly on larger bets can make the difference between a winning session and a losing session.

I've used the basic strategy engine, memorized it, and I follow it. But I feel like it screws me over at times. Like 2 nights ago, I lost 35 units in about 10 minutes because there was high + count and I had 14 or 15 vs T. Basic strategy says to hit, so I hit and I bust, while dealer really only had 12/13 and would've busted instead of me if I would've stayed. What I need are indices for the single deck game that I play for either Hi-Lo count or HI-opt 1. I thought about using the illustrious 18, but saw it was for multi-deck so I hesitated.

The rules again are SD, NDAS, Double any 2 cards, one card on split Aces, Dealer hits soft 17 (hits on A6)( the s stands for soft when I previously mentioned the rules), no surrender, split and re-split any cards.


Thanks.

 

[tthree]

Deck composition vs indices

Our concerns were that you didnt know basic strategy. If you do, the next step is to learn the indices. The illustrious 18 are the ones best to memorize first. They improve your playing efficiency the most. Single deck games allow for the most variation in decisions. Deck composition has more to do with the right play than the TC in a lot of cases making the indices a little less effective.

Like 14 v T is a much better for standing if all the sevens are used up. A very small percentage of the possible combinations of the other cards make hitting the correct move in this situation. The 7 would give you 21 and its removal increases the dealers likelihood of busting more than any other card. The first hand off the deck if you have a pair of sevens versus the dealer ten standing is the correct decision. Both the HILO index and basic strategy would have you hit.

If you are interested there are some good books out there. Im reading "The Theory Of Blackjack". Chapter 6 has tables showing the effect of card removal for every card and for every hand match up of the top of the deck.

Aces and sevens are the best cards to keep track of for play changes that basic strategy and indices miss. This is advanced blackjack but its biggest value is in single deck games. Aces are also important for sizing your optimal bet. Their removal makes the chances of a blackjack go down considerably with each ace. Think about how you may be betting huge because the count is through the roof indicating lots of tens and aces. But what if all 4 aces have been played? Your bet is very large to a large degree because the count indicates a likely blackjack but in reality you cannt possibly get a blackjack.