Newbie counting questions

[21forme]

Hi all,
I've been playing BJ recreationally for a number of years and am proficient with the basic strategy. I usually come out ahead because I typically play for a couple of hours and leave the table on an upswing. Naturally, that isn't always the case (but may be if you ask the wife )

I recently purchased the K-O system book. I've been working on counting proficiency, and currently am able to count a deck in 30-35 seconds, so I'm thinking it may be time to give it a try.

The problem I'm having, playing the trainer on this site, is tracking the running count and adding up my and the dealer's hands at the same time.

From what I've read, cards should not be counted until the players each have 2 cards, allowing to quickly cancel cards, etc. When exactly do you do the count on each player's hand relative to drawing cards on your own hand?

Is there a preferred spot to sit at the table to facilitate counting?

Thanks.

 

[EasyRhino]

I'm a KO noob myself, but I like the system (because of the ease)

You're right that counting and figuring your hand and making the correct strategy play (and dealing with casino distractions!) can be difficult. And the answer for that is, quite simply, more practice. Actually, I found that playing through several thousand hands of online blackjack (hustling bonuses) served as a really great way to reinforce basic strategy, and make my play decisions more subconscious and automatic. I thought I had BS locked-in before, but I'm quicker now. Now, as soon as I see my own hand, I'm automatically "keyed" towards a certain play, and it only sometimes matters what the dealer's hand is.

Two-card cancelling is a great skill, have you been using it when counting down decks? It's useful to alternate between single, two, and even three card sets.

In terms of order of operation, when sitting at a shoe game, I usually count all of the pairs for the player, then count the dealer's up card, then count each player card individually as it's drawn. (you could dally and try to combine and cancel more cards, but they can get swept pretty quickly when the player busts).

Sometimes the dealer deals his upcard first, so I count that first, then player pairs, then each card as dealt.

 

[Jeff25]

Learning to Count

Try the Free Blackjack Card Counting Software on this page. I learned to count using it and to this day practice with it to keep sharp.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/TOClibrary.html#Blackjack_And_Card_Counting_Software

 

[21forme]

Jeff,
Does that program run under WinXP? Just looking at the upzipped directory and the file sizes make me think it's DOS...
Thanks.

 

[Jeff25]

Jeff,
Does that program run under WinXP? Just looking at the upzipped directory and the file sizes make me think it's DOS...
Thanks.

The program does run from DOS, it opens in a separate window. I use WinXP and have no problem running the program.

 

[supercoolmancool]

21forme,

K-O is a good one to start with at the dinner table yet it will cause major swings in bankroll.

That is true, however, not compared to ANY other card counting system.
Therefore KO is the best because it is so easy and SO POWERFUL!!!:flame: :whip: :devil:

 

[CasualPlayer]

Hi all,
The problem I'm having, playing the trainer on this site, is tracking the running count and adding up my and the dealer's hands at the same time.

From what I've read, cards should not be counted until the players each have 2 cards, allowing to quickly cancel cards, etc. When exactly do you do the count on each player's hand relative to drawing cards on your own hand?

Is there a preferred spot to sit at the table to facilitate counting?

I only get to play a few times a year. I have a few methods I use to get into playing shape and to make tracking easier while at the tables.

As Rhino said, do make sure you’re counting down decks two cards at a time. This will significantly improve your speed on the tables. Also, get one of the many software packages referenced on these pages for practice. The drills in these programs (I use BlackJack Counter from DeepNet) are VERY useful in keeping your skills sharp. Especially learn to count 3, 4 and 5 card combos. It is very easy to recognize the value of certain combos on sight with just a little practice.

At the table, I strongly prefer the first base position (actually, I usually go for 2nd base and then spread myself out wide to discourage people from sitting next to me on either side). The reason for this is that it allows me to wait until the end of the hand to update the RC. The dealer will pay the hands in order from 3rd base to 1st…leaving you LOTS of time to count each hand. I find that I make MANY more mistakes if I try to update the RC while the cards are coming out continually through the hand.

So you start with the RC from the end of the last hand. The cards are dealt. You can usually ignore all of the other hands (see EXCEPTION below) and make your decision quickly (most plays will still be straight BS and you should rarely have to think about them. Drills help this). Then you can calmly watch as the all of the other hands slowly play out in front of you. If a dealer has a BJ or busts, the dealer will clear that hand right away and you have to update your RC immediately. For all of the other cards on the table, you can count them as the dealer pays them (you HAVE to wait for this moment in a pitch game or any other circumstance where there are down cards) and update your RC once at the end of the hand. Rinse, wash, repeat.

EXCEPTION: If you are near an index point and your hand may or may not require an index play depending on the count, stop and glance at the other cards before you make your decision. You can usually tell very quickly if the count has changed enough to require the index play. This happens often with insurance opportunities. Of course, if you’re playing a pitch game, you don’t get to see the other players’ cards whether you’re at 1st or 3rd, but you can often peek at them, or ask them to show them to you as if you’re worried about “taking their card.”

This solved for me all of the problems that you are asking about.

Have fun.

CP

 

[mdlbj]

Hi all,

From what I've read, cards should not be counted until the players each have 2 cards, allowing to quickly cancel cards, etc. When exactly do you do the count on each player's hand relative to drawing cards on your own hand?

Thanks.

I don't think it matters where you sit as long as you do it the same every time. You should Have BS down to where you look at the cards and know what to do with them without thinking about it..

Counting in meaningful pairs is the way to go. Start at first base when they get their second card all the way until the dealer flips his last card. Adjust card by card when players hit.. When it comes to you, knowing BS like the back of your hand and knowing what the running count is, you should have no difficulties making your play. End with the dealers cards. If you are struggling remembering the count when it is your time to make a play. repeat the running count over and over in your head and ask the dealer what does that add up to? I remember I had this problem when I first started and did not care what people thought of me asking a question like that. Its basically a lot of practice..

Hope that helps a little.