No conversion HI LO?

[stoicsang]

I'm been using KO for serveral months now. For some reason though, I do count faster and more accurate using HI LO. May be it's because of the extra neutral card to ignore? My question is, is it always neccessary to convert to the TC using HI LO? Couldn't I just start in the negative with the IRC? I'm not sure what that would be on a 6 or 8 deck shoe nor do I do know when I would start ramping up my bets. Anyways, just wondering if this would work. Any feed back would be appreciated.

 

[winnawinna]

I'm been using KO for serveral months now. For some reason though, I do count faster and more accurate using HI LO. May be it's because of the extra neutral card to ignore? My question is, is it always neccessary to convert to the TC using HI LO? Couldn't I just start in the negative with the IRC? I'm not sure what that would be on a 6 or 8 deck shoe nor do I do know when I would start ramping up my bets. Anyways, just wondering if this would work. Any feed back would be appreciated.

Hi-Lo is a balanced counting system. Therefore there is no need to start in the negative. A TC conversion is far better for playing indices and betting spreads. I think you can also convert KO into a TC system, but I may be wrong

 

[blackjack avenger]

Get What You Put Into It

Probably any standard count you can play either balanced or unbalanced. Also, probably any count where you employ a TC will gain in strength.

Yes, you can use running HI LO, it's just not as strong without the TC.

 

[assume_R]

Yes, you can TC KO, and you can RC HiLo.

The advantage comes from since KO is unbalanced, if you start at the correct IRC, a certain RC means the same thing throughout the shoe. For example, in KO, starting at an IRC = -28 for 8D means that a RC of +4 is equal to a TC of +4 no matter where you are in the shoe. This is nice, because you'll usually want to have a lot of money out at +4, and want accurate betting and playing decisions there.

Contrarily, HiLo's RC of 0 corresponds to a TC of 0 no matter where you are in the shoe. So using a RC based HiLo will be very accurate for playing and betting decisions around 0, where you don't have a lot of money out.

This is why good and popular unbalanced counts usually sum to a positive number in a given deck.

Also, as an aside, some playing decisions in which a 7 either helps or hurts significantly will be more accurate when using KO.

I hope this clarifies some things.

 

[assume_R]

Here is a spreadsheet I made (right now data is input for KO) which will give you the TC at each RC and spot in the shoe for a given system.

 

[yesiamred]

I'm been using KO for serveral months now. For some reason though, I do count faster and more accurate using HI LO. May be it's because of the extra neutral card to ignore?

Repetition, Repetition , Repetition ...it will get easier. I started out with KISS but converted to hi lo. Trust me when I say if I can make it work then anyone can. I felt the same way as you when converting but I stuck with it. Did I mention Repetition? In addition, a few months is nothing for learning and preparation, try practicing for a few more months or until perfection is achieved, that's my suggestion...

There are phone apps and software available to aide with practicing, heck I always carry a deck of cards with me always.

Good luck,
Red

 

[aslan]

Here is a spreadsheet I made (right now data is input for KO) which will give you the TC at each RC and spot in the shoe for a given system.

Very nice spreadsheet, but don't you have your wong out points a bit low?

 

[stoicsang]

Thanks everyone great feedback. I plan on keeping at it hard. I think I will try out the hi lo and keep working on the conversion. Practice, Practice, Practice.

 

[Canceler]

Nooooo!

... I play mostly at XXXXXXXXX Casino in XXXXXXXXXX XX. Thus far they don't seem too hostile and great table terms.

Fixed your post. I suggest you do the same.

 

[assume_R]

Very nice spreadsheet, but don't you have your wong out points a bit low?

Thank you. That is just for colors. This way any TC between -4 and -30 will be gray. Change it to -5, and just see how the cells with a TC < -5 become blue.

Besides colors, it has no effect on the spreadsheet.

 

[aslan]

Thank you. That is just for colors. This way any TC between -4 and -30 will be gray. Change it to -5, and just see how the cells with a TC < -5 become blue.

Besides colors, it has no effect on the spreadsheet.

Ah, ok. thanks

 

[Renzey]

Is it always necessary to convert to the TC using HI LO? Couldn't I just start in the negative with the IRC? I'm not sure what that would be on a 6 or 8 deck shoe nor do I do know when I would start ramping up my bets.

You could play "near Hi/Lo" in running count mode by dropping out the red Aces. Hence, you'd be ignoring all 7's, 8's, 9's and red Aces. Your "mathematical" betting efficiency will drop from 97% to 93.5%, but in reality, your performance will improve significantly over running count Hi/Lo due to the unbalancing feature, which will link the RC to the TC.

Begin six decks with an IRC of "9". Begin ramping up your bets at an RC of "20" (which will always be a TC between +1.3 and +1.8). You can use the 22 index plays from page 155 of Blackjack Bluebook II -- they will work fine with this hybrid count.

 

[aslan]

You could play "near Hi/Lo" in running count mode by dropping out the red Aces. Hence, you'd be ignoring all 7's, 8's, 9's and red Aces. Your "mathematical" betting efficiency will drop from 97% to 93.5%, but in reality, your performance will improve significantly over running count Hi/Lo due to the unbalancing feature, which will link the RC to the TC.

Begin six decks with an IRC of "9". Begin ramping up your bets at an RC of "20" (which will always be a TC between +1.3 and +1.8). You can use the 22 index plays from page 155 of Blackjack Bluebook II -- they will work fine with this hybrid count.

While we're on the subject more or less, will switching from KO to Unbalanced Zen yield any noticeable benefits?

 

[stoicsang]

Fixed your post. I suggest you do the same.

I did what you suggested. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Renzey]

While we're on the subject more or less, will switching from KO to Unbalanced Zen yield any noticeable benefits?

In the sims I ran for BJBBII, UBZ yielded about a 6% higher gain than KO full. Runs were only 300 million hands each though.

 

[aslan]

In the sims I ran for BJBBII, UBZ yielded about a 6% higher gain than KO full. Runs were only 300 million hands each though.

Hmm. Now you have me thinking. Currently, I check at each deck dealt whether I have reached TC key count (1/2% adv) or better. If I have reached TCKC, I raise my bet to 2 units. If I am somewhere near the midpoint between TCKC and +4, I raise my bet to one half max bet. I'll have to sim this way of playing KO, if that is possible, to see whether it yields me anywhere near the 6% gain of using UBZ. Do you think my method can be simmed with Qfit's software (what is it, CVCX?) which unfortunately I left in LV on my laptop there. Maybe I have a CD-- can't remember. lol I think I have early symptoms of Alzheimers.

 

[revrac]

Hmm. Now you have me thinking. Currently, I check at each deck dealt whether I have reached TC key count (1/2% adv) or better. If I have reached TCKC, I raise my bet to 2 units. If I am somewhere near the midpoint between TCKC and +4, I raise my bet to one half max bet. I'll have to sim this way of playing KO, if that is possible, to see whether it yields me anywhere near the 6% gain of using UBZ. Do you think my method can be simmed with Qfit's software (what is it, CVCX?) which unfortunately I left in LV on my laptop there. Maybe I have a CD-- can't remember. lol I think I have early symptoms of Alzheimers.

I'd like to point out that Renzey is talking about 6 decks in his simulation, the advantage is higher and more apparent on double decks. If you want to know the difference between TKO and UBZ on 6 deck it is almost non-existent.