No Double Down After Splitting (NDDAS)

[aslan]

NDDAS seems to be a spreading phenomenon. In October I discovered that all the Bally owned casinos had it for their 2D games. Last week I visited Vegas downtown and found that all the casinos I visited under the dome or whatever you call it had a NDDAS rule for 2D (Fitzgerald's, 4 Queens, Binion's, Fremont). Then, on a tip I visited the Hilton. I thought it was a great game until I tried to DDAS and was told, "Not at the Hilton!" I asked, "Where's the sign?" "We don't have one," the PB, who was standing nearby replied. " But there's NDDAS in this hotel." He went on to explain how the Hilton had completely done away with 2D games at one time. He said that all the blackjack players quit playing at the Hilton, so they decided to bring it back, but they added the NDDAS rule. He admitted the Hilton had no gamble. My mouth dropped. "What?" He repeated, "The Hilton doesn't believe in gambling," he replied. "There's no gamble here." Nice guy. He told me the Riviera across the street had better rules, so I went there and he was right. I recouped my losses and made some profits.

The point of this thread is that it seems the casinos are awfully cognizant of every little nuance of blackjack and that they are slowly phasing out games that advantage players can win at. Does anyone have any experiences to relate? I've posted similar threads and received mixed thoughts. I'm wondering how competitive the casinos are in terms of BJ rules. Does it really affect business that much? It seems like where they have a good draw (entertainment, conventions, girls) they are quick to bring in the bad rules and the CSMs. Many places have a mixture of CSMs, ASMs, and hand shuffle games, I guess because they know that many people don't know the difference. Also, I visited ten clubs this trip and never saw a SD 3-2 game. Is 6-5 the new de facto standard? What's going on?

 

[Ferretnparrot]

-Several casinos in atlantic city mostly the less popular ones, adopted the h17 rule, almost immediately after noticing a drop in profits a few months back
-I Could be wrong but i think the most successful casino in ac is the borgata, and they offer (to the bs player) the best game in town 6d s16 das no side bets on any table

I think this information is relevant somehow, and can probibly be debated

 

[aslan]

-Several casinos in atlantic city mostly the less popular ones, adopted the h17 rule, almost immediately after noticing a drop in profits a few months back
-I Could be wrong but i think the most successful casino in ac is the borgata, and they offer (to the bs player) the best game in town 6d s16 das no side bets on any table

I think this information is relevant somehow, and can probibly be debated

Do you mean 6d s17? that is, the dealer must stay on soft 17?

 

[Kasi]

the borgata, and they offer (to the bs player) the best game in town 6d s17(sic) das

Let no man say we always disagree lol.

 

[shadroch]

3/2 SD in Vegas is rare,but it exists. Just not in tourist traps.Same with DD with DAS.Plenty of places offer good DD games.

 

[21forme]

-Several casinos in atlantic city mostly the less popular ones, adopted the h17 rule, almost immediately after noticing a drop in profits a few months back
-I Could be wrong but i think the most successful casino in ac is the borgata, and they offer (to the bs player) the best game in town 6d s16 das no side bets on any table

You are wrong (besides the s16.) Borgata does offer side bets in one pit (Match the Dealer.) I would not call Bally's a less popular casino. They went H17 on half the BJ tables a few months ago. It's one of the busier casinos in town (for a reason I don't understand.)

 

[rukus]

but he IS right in that the borgata offers the best off-the-top (dis)advantage given the 6d, s17, DAS, etc rules. in my opinion, with a friendly disposition towards the PC and dealers at the borgata, heat is much lower at the borgata than anywhere on the strip section. comps also seems to flow most loosely from them. maybe these point to the higher profitability of the borgata vs the strip casinos, but i am not an expert on that.

 

[shadroch]

I've read the average overnite guest at Borgata spends(not gambles) something like three times the amount the typical Boardwalker.I'm sure that helps their bottom line immensely.

 

[aslan]

I've read the average overnite guest at Borgata spends(not gambles) something like three times the amount the typical Boardwalker.I'm sure that helps their bottom line immensely.

No doubt. And you play in a clean and luxurious setting reminiscent of the best in Las Vegas. They have raised the bar for AC IMO and I'm guessing the new MGM will raise it a notch higher.

BTW, MGM and Boyd own the Borgata; do you think MGM is thinking of eventually dominating the AC scene like they have in Vegas (MGM Grand, Luxor, Excaliber, Bellagio, Mirage, Treasure Island, Circus Circus, Monte Carlo, NY-NY, Railroad Pass)? The MGM Grand is slated to be a $5 billion project similar to the mega City Center ($7 billion) now under construction on the Strip.

Speaking of City Center, some say it's a case overkill and will destroy the strip, causing massive traffic jams with its 3,438 rooms and 564 suites. But every project in Vegas seems to be a game of oneupmanship over the last extravaganza to end all extravaganzas. Somehow I doubt that this will mark the end of the wild and crazy building frenzy on and near the strip, not to mention the 5,000 room Echelon being built on the grounds of the former Stardust Casino.

 

[shadroch]

Actually,Harrahs is as dominating in the Vegas market as MGM.
Latest industry figures have Harrahs #1,Caesars #4,Ballys-Paris #6,Flamingo #8,and Rio,Bills and the IP all hitting the top twenty.

Are you sure MGM owns Railroad pass? It's not listed on any of my membership cards.

 

[Ferretnparrot]

mgm already has a casino in AC according to mapquest, so i guess that will be happening soon.

I heard on the radio yesterday that pinnacle may be abandoning its project, it had something to due with interest rates.

 

[aslan]

mgm already has a casino in AC according to mapquest, so i guess that will be happening soon.

I heard on the radio yesterday that pinnacle may be abandoning its project, it had something to due with interest rates.

The MGM Grand is slated for opening in 2012. As far as I know, the only casino in AC that MGM owns is the Borgata in partnership with Boyd Gaming. Steve Wynn was one of the original owners but when he sold his Vegas casinos to MGM, the deal also included his stake in the Borgata in AC.

 

[aslan]

Actually,Harrahs is as dominating in the Vegas market as MGM.
Latest industry figures have Harrahs #1,Caesars #4,Ballys-Paris #6,Flamingo #8,and Rio,Bills and the IP all hitting the top twenty.

Are you sure MGM owns Railroad pass? It's not listed on any of my membership cards.

Shadroch,

This came out of Wikapedia on MGM holdings:

Las Vegas, Nevada

Statue of Liberty at New York-New York with the MGM Grand Las Vegas in the background.Bellagio Hotel/Casino
Circus Circus
Slots-A-Fun Casino
CityCenter
Excalibur
Luxor
Mandalay Bay
THEhotel at Mandalay Bay
MGM Grand Las Vegas
The Signature at MGM Grand
The Mirage
Monte Carlo Hotel/Casino
New York-New York Hotel/Casino
Treasure Island

[edit] Elsewhere in Nevada
Circus Circus Reno, Reno, Nevada
Silver Legacy Resort Casino, Reno, Nevada (50% owner in partnership with Eldorado Hotel Casino)
Railroad Pass, Henderson, Nevada
Nevada Landing Hotel and Casino, Jean, Nevada (Closed March 20, 2007)
Gold Strike Hotel and Gambling Hall, Jean, Nevada
Primm Valley Golf Club (Actually just over the state line in California)
Shadow Creek Golf Course[1], North Las Vegas, Nevada

 

[SPX]

I think that if you want to find the best games then you'll need to wander off the beaten path. I've never been to AC or LV. I've actually only played blackjack in two places: Vicksburg, MS and Wendover, NV and I've found excellent games in both places.

In MS you'll consistently find great 6D, DD and SD games. There's no 6:5 bullshit going on there. And in Wendover, it's nothing but SD with great rules. In fact, every time I go to Wendy, I'm playing against a house edge of .17%. What's not to like?

Well, there is one drawback: You don't get the big LV atmosphere, the shows, the craziness.


EDIT: I feel compelled to mention that I've actually never seen a 6:5 game. I hear about it all the time on here, and on websites, and in books, but I've never encountered the animal with my own eyes.

 

[Dopple]

If I stay heavy into the game I will pick up a copy of cbjn and compare it with a recent one in about 6 months and give the group a report.

This concerns me. The Ndas

I hope cbjn will be fairly accurate.

 

[bj bob]

I think that if you want to find the best games then you'll need to wander off the beaten path. I've never been to AC or LV. I've actually only played blackjack in two places: Vicksburg, MS and Wendover, NV and I've found excellent games in both places.


EDIT: I feel compelled to mention that I've actually never seen a 6:5 game. I hear about it all the time on here, and on websites, and in books, but I've never encountered the animal with my own eyes.*

*Just shoot west on I-80 400 mi. and check out the SD games at Harrah's, El Dorado and Silver Legacy, try not to vomit on the tables (or try to) while passing through the pits.

 

[shadroch]

Evidently,RP is owned by MGM-Mirage,but is not a member of their One Club.
Interesting. I always thought it was a stand alone casino. Thanks.