Background: I'm a math-head. I learned to count for the entertainment and for the challenge. I'm not trying to make a living at it. I learned the KO system, and I'd say I've got it down cold. I go to Vegas once a year for a long weekend; stay on the strip and play maybe 12-18 hours a day (6 deck) while I'm there. I don't jump around tables or casinos. I'll take root at a $10/15 table (lowest min available), spread 10-90, and have at it. My cover is not great...in my experience, I don't really need one at those levels. I'll drink a fair amount, tip a fair amount...try to chat between hands to make up for the fact that I'm quiet during them. No one from dealers to pit bosses have ever seemed to notice or care. I just want to stay for free, enjoy myself, and rack up some comp dollars. That said, it's not like I've ever made a killing. I might fluctuate 800 down here, 600 up there. But after a nice night's work recently, I had a weird experience. I'm wondering if anyone can confirm whether a casino could be behind something like this.
On day 3 of 4 in my trip, I had a couple of great shoes. The count zoomed up, and I'm betting 90 as the dealer busted time after time. I'd say I took 800 out of that one shoe. A friend wandered up to the table just as things got good...I told him to sit down, and he won $350 in minutes. Later, in another nice shoe, I split and doubled to have 6 $75 hands out there, and the dealer busted...I couldn't help but let out a holler on the bust card. I'd say I ended up $1500 for the session. I was very pleased with myself and called it a night after only 8 hours.
The next day, still feeling good, I sat down after lunch expecting to play through to the following AM. Two or three shoes in, nothing has happened. I haven't raised my bet...I did sit out a few hands when the count was hideous. There are only 3 people at the table. I'm in the middle. The count was horrible at one particular moment, when this obnoxious guy comes up...says he wants to play two hands. He looks like 3rd rate mobster from the Sopranos. Mid 50's, gray hair combed back, thick glasses, shiny track suit...moderately out of place in the 20-30something oriented casino I'm in. There are not two empty spots next to each other available. He didn't ask nicely as just about anyone would. Just kinda blustered up and expected me to move over. He gave the dealer a player's card and cashed in for maybe 500. I didn't know if he was in for the long haul, or just to finish out the shoe or something, so I asked him how long he was going to stay...to help me decide whether to shift seats. He said flippantly, "I don't know...15-20 minutes? Probably longer than you." I replied, "You don't know me very well." So I slid my chips over one spot, but kept my seat.
That was moderately odd...next it got weirder. He immediately gets in my ear. He only spoke to me...he ignored the other two people at the table. Asked me where I was from. Then, at the top of the next new shoe, he said quietly, "OK, I'm going to start with one hand, but then I might go to two. Follow my lead." Essentially identifying himself to me as a counter, if I happen to be someone who would recognize it. I would like to ignore him, but he stays in my ear with counting-related comments.
In all my travels before now, I've only stumbled upon one other counter at the low limit tables I play. (And those of you that do it know how obvious it is when the count gets good.) Clearly this guy thinks he's a counter, but he jumped in with two hands at a hideous count, and now he's IDed himself to me intentionally in 2 minutes. Flat out weird. He's obnoxious, and I just want him to go away. In so many words, I tell the guy that I know what he's trying to tell me, but I'm fine, thanks...and that we should not be talking about the things we are talking about. He's like, "I could tell about you...I knew about you. I'd like to talk to you outside of here." Half way through the shoe, again the count was not good. He quietly tells me so, and I quietly agree with him. He then says abruptly, "I guess I'm not staying as long as I thought." And he's gone. He was probably there 5-10 minutes total.
At first, I was just happy he was gone. The other players and even the dealer were making fun of him...the way he blustered in and carried himself. But a minute later, a wave of semi-panic washed over me. I never see other counters. I'm usually very cautious about identifying myself...I won't even tell people I'm a computer programmer. But this clown comes up, and I essentially confessed in 5 minutes that I was counting. And as soon as I did so, he left.
Instead of playing my usual marathon session, I almost immediately bailed, went back to my room, and watched TV the rest of the day/night. I needed to gather my thoughts. I was half expecting a knock at the door. But I've never even bet $100 on a hand...they couldn't possibly care, right? But there's no way this was a coincidence. I hadn't raised my bet at all that day...how could this guy say he "could tell about me?" I flip-flopped like this in my head all night.
I was set to leave at noon the next day, so I figured I had to try to play, just to see if they would deal to me. I didn't want to return next year and get flagged as soon as I sat down. I waited until after check out to make sure I got my comps (not sure if they comp you after they refuse to deal to you). I put in my player's card played a half hour at a $25 table. The count got good, but the cards weren't friendly...I gave back $500 in those 30 minutes. Thankfully nothing happened. But I wish I would have gotten on a hot streak just to confirm that things were all clear.
So...after all that typing...my question to you is, have you ever heard of a casino trying to confirm whether someone is counting like that? I guess if they wanted to put me in the book, that would be the difference between labeling me a suspected counter vs a confirmed counter. But if they noticed me the day before, wouldn't the pit boss or someone else say something? On the flip side, maybe they thought I was part of a team or something, since a friend of mine got up from another table, came over when the count was good, won, and left. And at least I confirmed for them that I am a complete idiot (for identifying myself) and not any sort of threat. Or maybe I really did randomly meet an obnoxious, card-counting knucklehead.
Any thoughts from someone with more experience than me would be appreciated...
On day 3 of 4 in my trip, I had a couple of great shoes. The count zoomed up, and I'm betting 90 as the dealer busted time after time. I'd say I took 800 out of that one shoe. A friend wandered up to the table just as things got good...I told him to sit down, and he won $350 in minutes. Later, in another nice shoe, I split and doubled to have 6 $75 hands out there, and the dealer busted...I couldn't help but let out a holler on the bust card. I'd say I ended up $1500 for the session. I was very pleased with myself and called it a night after only 8 hours.
The next day, still feeling good, I sat down after lunch expecting to play through to the following AM. Two or three shoes in, nothing has happened. I haven't raised my bet...I did sit out a few hands when the count was hideous. There are only 3 people at the table. I'm in the middle. The count was horrible at one particular moment, when this obnoxious guy comes up...says he wants to play two hands. He looks like 3rd rate mobster from the Sopranos. Mid 50's, gray hair combed back, thick glasses, shiny track suit...moderately out of place in the 20-30something oriented casino I'm in. There are not two empty spots next to each other available. He didn't ask nicely as just about anyone would. Just kinda blustered up and expected me to move over. He gave the dealer a player's card and cashed in for maybe 500. I didn't know if he was in for the long haul, or just to finish out the shoe or something, so I asked him how long he was going to stay...to help me decide whether to shift seats. He said flippantly, "I don't know...15-20 minutes? Probably longer than you." I replied, "You don't know me very well." So I slid my chips over one spot, but kept my seat.
That was moderately odd...next it got weirder. He immediately gets in my ear. He only spoke to me...he ignored the other two people at the table. Asked me where I was from. Then, at the top of the next new shoe, he said quietly, "OK, I'm going to start with one hand, but then I might go to two. Follow my lead." Essentially identifying himself to me as a counter, if I happen to be someone who would recognize it. I would like to ignore him, but he stays in my ear with counting-related comments.
In all my travels before now, I've only stumbled upon one other counter at the low limit tables I play. (And those of you that do it know how obvious it is when the count gets good.) Clearly this guy thinks he's a counter, but he jumped in with two hands at a hideous count, and now he's IDed himself to me intentionally in 2 minutes. Flat out weird. He's obnoxious, and I just want him to go away. In so many words, I tell the guy that I know what he's trying to tell me, but I'm fine, thanks...and that we should not be talking about the things we are talking about. He's like, "I could tell about you...I knew about you. I'd like to talk to you outside of here." Half way through the shoe, again the count was not good. He quietly tells me so, and I quietly agree with him. He then says abruptly, "I guess I'm not staying as long as I thought." And he's gone. He was probably there 5-10 minutes total.
At first, I was just happy he was gone. The other players and even the dealer were making fun of him...the way he blustered in and carried himself. But a minute later, a wave of semi-panic washed over me. I never see other counters. I'm usually very cautious about identifying myself...I won't even tell people I'm a computer programmer. But this clown comes up, and I essentially confessed in 5 minutes that I was counting. And as soon as I did so, he left.
Instead of playing my usual marathon session, I almost immediately bailed, went back to my room, and watched TV the rest of the day/night. I needed to gather my thoughts. I was half expecting a knock at the door. But I've never even bet $100 on a hand...they couldn't possibly care, right? But there's no way this was a coincidence. I hadn't raised my bet at all that day...how could this guy say he "could tell about me?" I flip-flopped like this in my head all night.
I was set to leave at noon the next day, so I figured I had to try to play, just to see if they would deal to me. I didn't want to return next year and get flagged as soon as I sat down. I waited until after check out to make sure I got my comps (not sure if they comp you after they refuse to deal to you). I put in my player's card played a half hour at a $25 table. The count got good, but the cards weren't friendly...I gave back $500 in those 30 minutes. Thankfully nothing happened. But I wish I would have gotten on a hot streak just to confirm that things were all clear.
So...after all that typing...my question to you is, have you ever heard of a casino trying to confirm whether someone is counting like that? I guess if they wanted to put me in the book, that would be the difference between labeling me a suspected counter vs a confirmed counter. But if they noticed me the day before, wouldn't the pit boss or someone else say something? On the flip side, maybe they thought I was part of a team or something, since a friend of mine got up from another table, came over when the count was good, won, and left. And at least I confirmed for them that I am a complete idiot (for identifying myself) and not any sort of threat. Or maybe I really did randomly meet an obnoxious, card-counting knucklehead.
Any thoughts from someone with more experience than me would be appreciated...
