Off-table wager with an ignorant semi-ploppy

[fwb]

I recently found myself playing with a rather abrasive "semi-ploppy", someone who knew how to adjust his bets with the count but completely disregarded index plays and used the wrong basic strategy for the particular ruleset of the table. For some reason, he took offense to my play, calling me retarded for taking insurance at times, among other index plays, as well as my spreading when "the count was zero" (not quite matching my Hi-Opt II w/ ace side count ). He could tell I was another counter but could just not accept the fact that I was ignoring his idiotic remarks, non-verbally telling him he was wrong.

Anyways, of course I never speak up at the table about my real thoughts on strategy and just play stupid, but after an off-table discussion with this character, he is so convinced I am wrong and my strategy is worse than his that I have the opportunity to wager my bankroll against this fact, verified through CVData. Would you do it ?

Now, I'm a pretty young guy and it's clear he's banking on the fact that he thinks he's seen enough blackjack in his life to think he's all-knowing.
"Do this for a living and then we'll talk"....heh.

I don't doubt that he's playing with a marginally winning strategy, but I already know it's far from optimal with his lack of index plays, wrong basic strategy, and sub-optimal counting system (and he doesn't read anything on the internet, including forums).

So...anyone think I should actually go through with this...? The +EV opportunity-play side of me sure wants to, especially after the brutal negative variance that has hit me recently

Anyone actually win an off-table bet like this and actually get paid by the other party? I have my doubts :whip:

 

[muppet]

put it in writing and get an escrow service

 

[shadroch]

Why bother? If your not married to the person, why give a fig about it.
"My gung fu is more powerful than yours" is mildly entertaining at best. Why go out of your way to get someone pissed off at you?

 

[fubster]

was he saying this **** at the table while watching you? if so, insta accept any bet he offers and be sure to find a reliable escrow

chances are he won't accept anyway so just tell him that counting is for suckers and that the only way to win is to never give up and trust your instincts or something

 

[jack.jackson]

I recently found myself playing with a rather abrasive "semi-ploppy", someone who knew how to adjust his bets with the count but completely disregarded index plays and used the wrong basic strategy for the particular ruleset of the table. For some reason, he took offense to my play, calling me retarded for taking insurance at times, among other index plays, as well as my spreading when "the count was zero" (not quite matching my Hi-Opt II w/ ace side count ). He could tell I was another counter but could just not accept the fact that I was ignoring his idiotic remarks, non-verbally telling him he was wrong.

Anyways, of course I never speak up at the table about my real thoughts on strategy and just play stupid, but after an off-table discussion with this character, he is so convinced I am wrong and my strategy is worse than his that I have the opportunity to wager my bankroll against this fact, verified through CVData. Would you do it ?

You have to remember, that its not you and these guys typically argue with everyone at the table. Ive seen alot of ploppy vs ploppy showdowns before and they're hilarious.I'll admit that its sometimes hard to ignore these idiots when at the table, but unfortunately dealing with these annoyances, becomes another element of the game that you have to endure. of course walking away or ignoring him is one of a few options. To let them think what they want sometimes shuts them up as well or by telling them your playing with your friends money and he has you play a certain way, sometimesd helps. Or Im just experimenting. Card couinting is a license to ridicule, so be careful who you tell.

Now, I'm a pretty young guy and it's clear he's banking on the fact that he thinks he's seen enough blackjack in his life to think he's all-knowing.
"Do this for a living and then we'll talk"....heh.

I don't doubt that he's playing with a marginally winning strategy, but I already know it's far from optimal with his lack of index plays, wrong basic strategy, and sub-optimal counting system (and he doesn't read anything on the internet, including forums).

So...anyone think I should actually go through with this...? The +EV opportunity-play side of me sure wants to, especially after the brutal negative variance that has hit me recently

Anyone actually win an off-table bet like this and actually get paid by the other party? I have my doubts :whip:

You have to remember, that its not you and these guys typically argue with everyone at the table. Ive seen alot of ploppy vs ploppy showdowns before and they're hilarious.I'll admit that its sometimes hard to ignore these idiots when at the table, but unfortunately dealing with these annoyances, becomes another element of the game that you have to endure. Of course walking away or ignoring him is one of a few options. To let them think what they want sometimes shuts them up as well or by telling them your playing with your friends money and he has you play a certain way. Or Im just experimenting. Card couinting is a license to ridicule, so be careful who you tell. Trick is, is to become a ghost while your there.

 

[Bojack1]

I recently found myself playing with a rather abrasive "semi-ploppy", someone who knew how to adjust his bets with the count but completely disregarded index plays and used the wrong basic strategy for the particular ruleset of the table. For some reason, he took offense to my play, calling me retarded for taking insurance at times, among other index plays, as well as my spreading when "the count was zero" (not quite matching my Hi-Opt II w/ ace side count ). He could tell I was another counter but could just not accept the fact that I was ignoring his idiotic remarks, non-verbally telling him he was wrong.

Anyways, of course I never speak up at the table about my real thoughts on strategy and just play stupid, but after an off-table discussion with this character, he is so convinced I am wrong and my strategy is worse than his that I have the opportunity to wager my bankroll against this fact, verified through CVData. Would you do it ?


Now, I'm a pretty young guy and it's clear he's banking on the fact that he thinks he's seen enough blackjack in his life to think he's all-knowing.
"Do this for a living and then we'll talk"....heh.

I don't doubt that he's playing with a marginally winning strategy, but I already know it's far from optimal with his lack of index plays, wrong basic strategy, and sub-optimal counting system (and he doesn't read anything on the internet, including forums).

So...anyone think I should actually go through with this...? The +EV opportunity-play side of me sure wants to, especially after the brutal negative variance that has hit me recently

Anyone actually win an off-table bet like this and actually get paid by the other party? I have my doubts :whip:

You know what, I look at this as an ego thing and not at as a chance for a + EV situation. It is beyond my comprehension why what a stranger thinks about your play would even matter in the least. Given the same situation I wouldn't even engage the guy. He is inconsequential to what I am trying to accomplish. Not to mention if he has you pegged as some kind of AP while he is barely one himself, what does that say how you are presenting yourself in the casino? Speaking just for me, when I play in a casino, I don't worry one bit what someone's opinion of me is. And there is no way I would ever bet a stranger money that I met in a casino on who's counting system is better. My advice to you is save your pride for your own self recognition, not for what others think. Especially others you don't know. Have pride in the truth that you are playing a superior game and let it go. The job for you is to make money by playing smart. Trying to prove your smart to others in a casino is never a + EV move.

 

[21forme]

You know what, I look at this as an ego thing and not at as a chance for a + EV situation. It is beyond my comprehension why what a stranger thinks about your play would even matter in the least. Given the same situation I wouldn't even engage the guy. He is inconsequential to what I am trying to accomplish. Not to mention if he has you pegged as some kind of AP while he is barely one himself, what does that say how you are presenting yourself in the casino? Speaking just for me, when I play in a casino, I don't worry one bit what someone's opinion of me is. And there is no way I would ever bet a stranger money that I met in a casino on who's counting system is better. My advice to you is save your pride for your own self recognition, not for what others think. Especially others you don't know. Have pride in the truth that you are playing a superior game and let it go. The job for you is to make money by playing smart. Trying to prove your smart to others in a casino is never a + EV move.

I agree with Master Bojack.

 

[21gunsalute]

Are you sure he isn't a casino plant?

 

[daddybo]

You know what, I look at this as an ego thing and not at as a chance for a + EV situation. It is beyond my comprehension why what a stranger thinks about your play would even matter in the least. Given the same situation I wouldn't even engage the guy. He is inconsequential to what I am trying to accomplish. Not to mention if he has you pegged as some kind of AP while he is barely one himself, what does that say how you are presenting yourself in the casino? Speaking just for me, when I play in a casino, I don't worry one bit what someone's opinion of me is. And there is no way I would ever bet a stranger money that I met in a casino on who's counting system is better. My advice to you is save your pride for your own self recognition, not for what others think. Especially others you don't know. Have pride in the truth that you are playing a superior game and let it go. The job for you is to make money by playing smart. Trying to prove your smart to others in a casino is never a + EV move.

Well Said Bojack1.

 

[FLASH1296]

Kudos to Bojack

 

[Sonny]

No chance of a win

As with any decision, you have to weight the possible outcomes. Since it is pretty clear that you will win the bet, here are a few scenarios in order of likelihood:

1) He welches on the bet. You don't get paid.
2) He changes the rules of the bet and reneges. You don't get paid.
3) You show him proof but he still doesn't believe you. You don't get paid.
2) He changes the rules of the bet and demands that you pay him.
4) He honors the bet. You get paid.
5) You legitimately lose the bet. (Always an option!) You lose your bankroll.
6) You legitimately lose the bet. You don't pay him.

All scenarios end with an obnoxious guy who resents you and knows you are an AP. Your life at that casino, and possibly several more, is limited.

A bet isn't +EV until you get paid. Even then it is sometimes questionable. If winning a bet was only about the math then we would all be successful gamblers. In some cases the math has nothing to do with it. In this case you think that you have a lock bet but the bet is locked against you. This other guy might be a terrible card counter but he is a great gambler. He knows how to get the best of it.

-Sonny-

 

[aslan]

A sucker is known by the size of his ego.

 

[creeping panther]

My greatest fear

I recently found myself playing with a rather abrasive "semi-ploppy", someone who knew how to adjust his bets with the count but completely disregarded index plays and used the wrong basic strategy for the particular ruleset of the table. For some reason, he took offense to my play, calling me retarded for taking insurance at times, among other index plays, as well as my spreading when "the count was zero" (not quite matching my Hi-Opt II w/ ace side count ). He could tell I was another counter but could just not accept the fact that I was ignoring his idiotic remarks, non-verbally telling him he was wrong.

Anyways, of course I never speak up at the table about my real thoughts on strategy and just play stupid, but after an off-table discussion with this character, he is so convinced I am wrong and my strategy is worse than his that I have the opportunity to wager my bankroll against this fact, verified through CVData. Would you do it ?



Now, I'm a pretty young guy and it's clear he's banking on the fact that he thinks he's seen enough blackjack in his life to think he's all-knowing.
"Do this for a living and then we'll talk"....heh.

I don't doubt that he's playing with a marginally winning strategy, but I already know it's far from optimal with his lack of index plays, wrong basic strategy, and sub-optimal counting system (and he doesn't read anything on the internet, including forums).

So...anyone think I should actually go through with this...? The +EV opportunity-play side of me sure wants to, especially after the brutal negative variance that has hit me recently

Anyone actually win an off-table bet like this and actually get paid by the other party? I have my doubts :whip:

Is that anyone would ever refer to me as "retarded" at the BJ table.:devil::whip:

CP

 

[21forme]

Is that anyone would ever refer to me as "retarded" at the BJ table.:devil::whip:

CP

Related to that...
I was playing Sp21 one day, hitting my 12s and 13s against dealer bust cards (unless an index play suggested otherwise). My pile of chips kept growing and growing, in spite of rat-holing what I could. There was a married couple sitting next to me, playing in typical ploppy fashion, betting MTD, etc. After their fourth buy-in, one looked at my pile of chips then said to the other, "he sure is lucky for a lousy player." :laugh:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...Anyone actually win an off-table bet like this and actually get paid by the other party? I have my doubts :whip:

Stay away from him. This is an incompetent, and a player with an attitudinal problem who can only get you into trouble. I would not associate with him in any way.

It is a possibility that this person could be a surveillance employee at another casino. "Ignorant semi-ploppy" sums up those guys perfectly, and when you see a guy who knows something about counting but applies it poorly, it could be that he learned this upstairs at the other end of a camera. Avoid.

 

[aslan]

Stay away from him. This is an incompetent, and a player with an attitudinal problem who can only get you into trouble. I would not associate with him in any way.

It is a possibility that this person could be a surveillance employee at another casino. "Ignorant semi-ploppy" sums up those guys perfectly, and when you see a guy who knows something about counting but applies it poorly, it could be that he learned this upstairs at the other end of a camera. Avoid.

Excellent advice. I do have personal knowledge of "card counters" who are members of surveillance teams at other casinos. It would do advantage players a serious disservice to educate these clueless enemy combatants (who are on vacation). If you could capture one, we might water board him and find out what he knows, but that's a subject for another website. lol