opinions on surrneder

[Jdesey]

okay,,, I just cannot decide on surrneder....

of course I know that the math wizrds say that it is worth close to ???% to the player. and I feel great when I surrender my Hard 16 to dealer 9,10,A and it works... but I hate it when I surrender and then would have won.

I almost feel like it is a wimpy move.

oh yeah,,, you cannot believe the ploppies response.... "what's surrender" they have no idea!!

opinions please

 

[blackchipjim]

use it

I just got back from vegas and that is a great rule. The casinos in my neck of the woods don't offer it and it hurts your bottom line. If it is used properlly with counting you can cut your losses on a big bet. I had alot of dealers call out surrender ever time I wanted it which I thought odd. I also say alot of people use it improperly. blackchipjim

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Use it. Of the commonly optional rules in shoe games, it is by far the most powerful one for a counter. I don't play a shoe game that doesn't offer surrender without a really good reason.

 

[Canceler]

I almost feel like it is a wimpy move.

Theory:
Sometimes surrender is the best play. That’s it. There should be no emotion involved with making the correct play.

Reality:
Any number of times I’ve surrendered my 16, only to see the next card is a 5. Everyone else can see it, too. Of course I wish I would have hit, but I console myself with knowing I made the correct play. Surrendering 17 vs. A (BS for multi-deck H17) is another story. This nearly always draws a look or a comment. I just say, “You’ll see.” It almost always turns out to have been the best thing to do.

Ploppies either never surrender, or they go crazy with it, like surrendering their 6.

 

[zengrifter]

okay,,, I just cannot decide on surrneder....

of course I know that the math wizrds say that it is worth close to ???% to the player. and I feel great when I surrender my Hard 16 to dealer 9,10,A and it works... but I hate it when I surrender and then would have won.

I almost feel like it is a wimpy move.

oh yeah,,, you cannot believe the ploppies response.... "what's surrender" they have no idea!!

opinions please

Do you know correct surrender strategy for basic and/or counting?

Its worth about ___ (someone fill in blank) for basic strategy. Worth alot more for counters. zg

 

[Mr. T]

okay,,, I just cannot decide on surrneder....

of course I know that the math wizrds say that it is worth close to ???% to the player. and I feel great when I surrender my Hard 16 to dealer 9,10,A and it works... but I hate it when I surrender and then would have won.

I almost feel like it is a wimpy move.

oh yeah,,, you cannot believe the ploppies response.... "what's surrender" they have no idea!!

opinions please

Always stick with BS. You must have decipline.
Out of 10 times you will get about 6 win and 4 losses. You cannot see the diference in actual play. In BJ you will always get others who would darmed you if you dont and darmed you if you do all the time.

 

[EasyRhino]

I LOVE surrender, best thing since chunky peanut butter!

Plus, it's something you actually get to USE. While S17 may have a bigger difference for a basic strategy player, it just sits there and does nothing. But I'm in charge of surrenderring which is great.

 

[Renzey]

okay,,, I just cannot decide on surrender.... I almost feel like it is a wimpy move. opinions please

Do you play any poker? Have you ever made a good fold?

 

[Dopple]

Where do you find surrender anymore anyway. It is rare is it not?

 

[aslan]

Where do you find surrender anymore anyway. It is rare is it not?

Mind's a little blurry, but I did run into it in Vegas on the strip. Was it DD at the Venetian or 6-deck at planet hollywood? I can't remember, but I liked it.

 

[ihate17]

Strip and more about surrender

Where do you find surrender anymore anyway. It is rare is it not?

If you purchase current blackjack news, it will give you every casino in the U.S. with surrender.
Off hand, Mandalay Bay, MGM, Trop, Monte Carlo, Venetian, Mirage, Belaggio, and a few others on the strip, all on shoes.
Also, several So Cal Indian casinos offer it.

The value of late surrender is about .1% to a basic strategy player but if you understand the concept of surrender it is worth more to a cardcounter. When you have a minimum bet out and you surrender your 15 vs 10 in a neutral count, you are making a play that is slightly better than hitting.
Now change that count to a max bet count: You now have perhaps 12 or more times the amount of money on the table and you also know because the remaining cards are extra rich in high cards, your likely hood of hitting something like a 4,5 or (in the case of 15) a 6 are significantly less. Besides all that, it is also more likely, for the same reasons, that the dealer showing a 10 will have a pat hand. You still lose 50% of your bet, but your reduced variance will over time lead to increased profits.

ihate17

 

[bj bob]

You betcha!

Where do you find surrender anymore anyway. It is rare is it not?

Live and well at the Alamo Truck Stop, East Sparks in the High Roller pit (single deck, too!)

 

[GeorgeD]

This is a bit off topic, but I was playing a game last spring, and when I realized they had surrender started using it on the usual .. 15/16 Vs 9-A. AT first the ploppy's looked at me like I had two heads, but after it worked out for me a few times, a couple of them started occasionally surrendering odd hands like 12 or 14 vs 8, but never used it with in any consistent way.

Suppose I shouldn't be surprised .... guess they were "going with their gutz".

 

[ihate17]

I agree with your observations

This is a bit off topic, but I was playing a game last spring, and when I realized they had surrender started using it on the usual .. 15/16 Vs 9-A. AT first the ploppy's looked at me like I had two heads, but after it worked out for me a few times, a couple of them started occasionally surrendering odd hands like 12 or 14 vs 8, but never used it with in any consistent way.

Suppose I shouldn't be surprised .... guess they were "going with their gutz".

So many times I am the only one at the table to surrender early on and then a few other players decide to do it but land up surrendering at the wrong times. One guy even surrendered a pair 8's against a dealer 8?

Dealers always (just about every single one of them) that if casinos put a rule in like surrender, it has to be bad for the players. That is like saying DAS is bad for players because the casino has it.
The funny thing is, these dealers are actually right but for the wrong reason. They are right because although surrender is definately a player friendly rule, if not used at the correct times it probably does add to the casino bottom line and tons of players do exactly this.

So that leaves an unanswered question in my mind. After watching players surrender their 12 vs 7, why do is it not available in every single casino?

ihate17

 

[EmeraldCityBJ]

Surrendering 17 vs. A (BS for multi-deck H17) is another story. This nearly always draws a look or a comment.

The thing that really makes you look like a doof is to buy insurance (because the count calls for it), and then surrender your 17vA.