Out of the Ordinary Counting Systems

[HouseBreaker]

Are there any systems devised to count certain cards in order to enhance basic strategy? For example, in an extreme example, if you know that there were a lot of 4s, 3s, 2s, and As remaining in relationship to other cards, it might be statistically correct to hit a hard 17. It might take a computer to figure out the break even point. In more practical terms, keeping track of certain cards might tell you when you should hit a 12 or 13 against a dealer 6 up-card because of the abundance of As through 8s (8/13 of the deck).

 

[assume_R]

I'd recommend you take some time to read over the "Blackjack School" on the left to learn about index plays (which is what you seem to be referring to), and perhaps take some time to read about side counts (I believe A's and 7's are the most important side counts)

 

[Sonny]

Are there any systems devised to count certain cards in order to enhance basic strategy?

There are, but you would need a different counting system for every hand. It gets very complicated very quickly. A few of the counting systems for the most important hands are discussed Beyond Counting Exhibit CAA. Theory of Blackjack will give you the theory and numbers you need investigate this further if you are really interested, but there are much simpler and more powerful methods of play available.

-Sonny-

 

[HouseBreaker]

There are, but you would need a different counting system for every hand. It gets very complicated very quickly. A few of the counting systems for the most important hands are discussed Beyond Counting Exhibit CAA. Theory of Blackjack will give you the theory and numbers you need investigate this further if you are really interested, but there are much simpler and more powerful methods of play available.

-Sonny-

There are much simpler ways, but casinos I frequent are well schooled in them. I am hoping for a fresh approach to counting that might defy normal counting detection (I know he's doing something, but I can't figure out what it is). Short of a photographic memory, I don't know of any. But that's why I'm asking. I'll take a look at Theory of BJ, but I'm guessing it is more the traditional approach to counting. I suppose the computer boys are busy 24/7 trying to figure new ways to slice and dice the game. I just haven't heard of any new way lately. But I appreciate your reply. I have no doubt that someone somewhere will make a new inroad into the game.

 

[Sonny]

I am hoping for a fresh approach to counting that might defy normal counting detection (I know he's doing something, but I can't figure out what it is).

It sounds like you're looking for a non-counting method. Are a few of them are mentioned in this thread:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=21994

Many, many more are discussed in Exhibit CAA. Once you learn the basics you will be able to create new strategies for blackjack or even games that have never been published. The casinos will still kick you out even though they don't know what you're doing, but at least you'll have a fighting chance.

-Sonny-

 

[Deathclutch]

There are much simpler ways, but casinos I frequent are well schooled in them. I am hoping for a fresh approach to counting that might defy normal counting detection (I know he's doing something, but I can't figure out what it is). Short of a photographic memory, I don't know of any. But that's why I'm asking. I'll take a look at Theory of BJ, but I'm guessing it is more the traditional approach to counting. I suppose the computer boys are busy 24/7 trying to figure new ways to slice and dice the game. I just haven't heard of any new way lately. But I appreciate your reply. I have no doubt that someone somewhere will make a new inroad into the game.

Sounds similar to a question in another thread. Here's the link that answered that one

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/counting/gordon.htm (Archive copy)

 

[iCountNTrack]

Are there any systems devised to count certain cards in order to enhance basic strategy? For example, in an extreme example, if you know that there were a lot of 4s, 3s, 2s, and As remaining in relationship to other cards, it might be statistically correct to hit a hard 17. It might take a computer to figure out the break even point. In more practical terms, keeping track of certain cards might tell you when you should hit a 12 or 13 against a dealer 6 up-card because of the abundance of As through 8s (8/13 of the deck).

Unless you are playing a very deeply dealt single deck(you might need a time machine), you will not see any significant advantage from making playing decisions adjustments. Not to mention it is itself very tedious if you want to do it correctly i.e side-couting

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Unless you are playing a very deeply dealt single deck(you might need a time machine), you will not see any significant advantage from making playing decisions adjustments. Not to mention it is itself very tedious if you want to do it correctly i.e side-couting

You didn't really mean that like you wrote it, right?

 

[bjcount]

Are there any systems devised to count certain cards in order to enhance basic strategy? For example, in an extreme example, if you know that there were a lot of 4s, 3s, 2s, and As remaining in relationship to other cards, it might be statistically correct to hit a hard 17. It might take a computer to figure out the break even point. In more practical terms, keeping track of certain cards might tell you when you should hit a 12 or 13 against a dealer 6 up-card because of the abundance of As through 8s (8/13 of the deck).

Try searching Gordons Multi- parameter or search for "Tarzan's counting method".

Either one of them use counts of groups of cards, like 2,3,4 : 5,6,7 : 8,9 : A : 10. I may have made some errors in these groups but I hope you got the message.

BJC

 

[iCountNTrack]

You didn't really mean that like you wrote it, right?

I was referring to plays HouseBreaker was talking about such as hitting at hard 17 if there is an excess of 3 or 4s. This is would only be seen frequently in a very deeply dealt SD game. In any case we say that playing efficiency is more important for SD games because of the higher frequency playing decisions deviations occur.

 

[HouseBreaker]

Try searching Gordons Multi- parameter or search for "Tarzan's counting method".

Either one of them use counts of groups of cards, like 2,3,4 : 5,6,7 : 8,9 : A : 10. I may have made some errors in these groups but I hope you got the message.

BJC

I have seen the Gordon/Tarzan count in other posts. Is there anywhere that details how it works, other than to identify when to walk away from the table due to an abundance of 2-5s and 10s?

 

[Deathclutch]

Sounds similar to a question in another thread. Here's the link that answered that one

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/counting/gordon.htm (Archive copy)

:whip:

 

[HouseBreaker]

:whip:

A thousand pardons! :whip:

 

[HouseBreaker]

:whip:

Good stuff this.