I have been trying to get a system down, but I have been side tracked the last month and haven't really got the time in to REALLY practice. I also have a big urge to play and was wondering............ if I went to AC and was at a table with someone else who was counting at my table and just followed his lead on when he increased his bets, I increased mine, would that be some kind of taboo thing, or is it something that is not regarded as to much of a foul by counters? Thanks for any input and opinions and if someone is willing, I would like to meet up and play at the same table and of course in a winning session, pass on some appreciation at end of session. My spread would not be has large as the counters so it wouldn't draw any extra attention, just need to play and want to with a little edge. Thanks
Piggybacking?
- Thread starter rennyboy
- Start date
Very good point.21forme said:
There is a guy who was talking about counting and he was an AP and all kinds of stuff. So I took him up on his offer and went to a casino with him. I kinda just back counted and didn't play much.
There was a shoe that was substantially negative. Any counter worth anything would have just wonged out, but he keeps playing.
For 3 hands there isn't a single 10 that came out. The TC was still neg and he starts jamming big bets out there.
Afterwards he's like "did you see all those small cards come out? I can't believe the blackjacks weren't coming."
I kinda just kept quiet. Had I trusted his 'counting' it could have been very expensive.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
They don't do backlining around these parts, so here's some half-smart considerations you need to look out for:
1) Unless you already know this particular person, you'll probably be lucky to find a good basic strategy player, let alone an effective counter. We're talking under 1% here.
2) I would think that backlining bets at the same time as this guy was raising his bets would indeed light him up a little bit. And sure, it's just AC, but it might bring some extra heat. And it's generally not polite to bring heat on another AP.
I think you would light up this guy slightly less if you backlined a different player, but not much. Plus, what are the odds you'd find both a competent counter and a BS player at the same table? Better off playing the lottery.
1) Unless you already know this particular person, you'll probably be lucky to find a good basic strategy player, let alone an effective counter. We're talking under 1% here.
2) I would think that backlining bets at the same time as this guy was raising his bets would indeed light him up a little bit. And sure, it's just AC, but it might bring some extra heat. And it's generally not polite to bring heat on another AP.
I think you would light up this guy slightly less if you backlined a different player, but not much. Plus, what are the odds you'd find both a competent counter and a BS player at the same table? Better off playing the lottery.
Does that mean you would use a different ratio than the counter or maybe mean you would use the same ratio but with a smaller unit?rennyboy said:
Even assuming he's a great counter, and you can and do use the same spread but with a smaller unit, and therefore are playing with the same edge he is, I hope you know if you are adequately capitalized.
If his min unit is the table min, and you bet when he does, then obviously you can't keep the same 1-X spread and still be betting less than he is. So, if you bet bet the table min like he's doing, but bet less than he does when he increases his bets, then you no longer have the same 1-X spread that he is using and are playing with less of an edge, and possibly none, than he is. And, even if happens you do still have an overall edge, albeit smaller, it's even more important to know if you are adequately capitalized.
Sorry for not making myself clearer on the "piggybacking" suggestion. I did not mean to play on the counters hand itself. I would be playing my own hand at the table, counting along, but probably not keeping a very accurate count. I would then play my usual BS, and I would vary my betting according to the counters betting.I would not be making it so obvious in my betting. I would not be playing a huge spread, just increasing enough to see some extra winnings. It would be like playing in "pre-season" mode. Just trying to get the feeling of when it becomes a real deal thing for me. I would just want to have a way of making sure I was in a very postive count rather than "assuming" I was, due to my lack of counting skill. Thanks for hearing me out
double4more
Member
Another counter at my table, raising bets in unison with me? I don't think I would like that. I would do what I could to get rid of the other person if possible or move to another table. Yes, it is AC and you can't get kicked out, but I've gotten heat (half shoed and constantly shuffled up on for any bet increase) and I've seen others given similar treatment. I would say it is poor form to be on the same table another counter is on. For me, the only acceptable way around it would be if the counters were teamed up where there was a joint bankroll and one played a big player role.
Even if the counter was the best counter in the world and your closest friend and couldn't care less how you bet, until you understand why this a terrible idea in the first place, you're not ready to play anyway.rennyboy said:
Say he's spreading from 10-160 at a $10 table raising his bets to various amounts at 4 different points on his way to his max bet. Whenever you see him raise his bet, you raise your bet $5. You're now spreading 1-3 and probably have a very small advantage. Still, with a bankroll of $4000 you'd probably have a 50% chance of losing it.
And that's very generous.
Before you waste your money trying this, even if you could, which, basically you can't anyway, so really it's your lucky day, just learn whatever until you have confidence in your counts.
After that learn some indexes.
After that, spend alot more time learning how to bet your bankroll.
Then maybe you're half-ready and you haven't spent a dime.
Are you currently practicing without a computer?
I am practicing on a computer and have also bought casino verite software. I just don't have all the time and focus yet but want to play. I do well playing BS but want the edge of counting. I guess I may use the ACE/10 count from Renzey for now. Thanks all for your opinions
Dyepaintball12
Well-Known Member
Yeah you need to be careful. I always start watching players when they play perfect BS but deviate once in a while.
But, pretty much all the time they are just playing off their gut and aren't counters.
But, pretty much all the time they are just playing off their gut and aren't counters.