Frank Scoblete wrote an article in the January edition of CasinoPlayer magazine. According to him, the house figures that an average BJ player loses 2% of his play. The house is willing to give back 30 to 50% of those losses in comps. The best BJ games have a house edge of less than .5% v. a player who uses perfect basic strategy. If a basic strategy player chooses a good game in a casino with good comps, he should have an edge, right? Also, by flat betting he avoids the volatility of card counting, not to mention the risk of getting kicked out.
Playing for comps: positive EV?
- Thread starter Caesar
- Start date
can you deposit meal vouchers or free rooms in a bank account? i cant pay my bills with them either. so i count.Caesar said:
that said, there are plenty of people who do what you suggest (see Max Rubins book Comp City), but it is getting harder these days, as many of the mainstay casinos are getting more stingy with comps, particularly if they know you are a strict BS player. it is still possible though.
If you add up the actual cost of the free things you will get then yes the low stakes BS player will come out ahead. I don't know about LV but for AC that's the case or at least it has been. However, your pockets will be a bit lighter in the long run.
On a typical trip, I get two nights of rooms comped, about $25 in free slot play, and one dinner comped. This is all just to get me in the door. I estimate that to be worth about $250 if I had to pay for all of those things at the casino.
On a typical trip, I get two nights of rooms comped, about $25 in free slot play, and one dinner comped. This is all just to get me in the door. I estimate that to be worth about $250 if I had to pay for all of those things at the casino.
A comp counter plays with an edge many times that of a card counter.
If you can't figure out how to turn your comps into cash, you are not trying hard enough. I'll happily launder them for you for a thirty percent cut.
Few comp counters flat bet, they bet big when they think they are being scrutinized and small most of the time.
If you can't figure out how to turn your comps into cash, you are not trying hard enough. I'll happily launder them for you for a thirty percent cut.
Few comp counters flat bet, they bet big when they think they are being scrutinized and small most of the time.
Betting big when in a -EV situation, even to get more comps is not smart. Often the pitboss will watch not just for one hand but for at least several hands so you can really do a number on yourself if you're not careful.
Shad, were you referring to me turning my comps into cash?
Shad, were you referring to me turning my comps into cash?
I was offering Ruckus my services, not you. although I'll happily help anyone who needs it.
People get too hung up on EV, imo. On a $50 bet, whats the difference in EV between a +2 count and a -2 count? I don't believe its anywhere close to the potential gain you have by the pit seeing you with that $50 bet out when the count calls for a $10 one. Remember this, and few people do- you are favored to win or push more than 50% of the time. One of the first things a Comp Counter needs do is forget 90% of how a Card Counter thinks.
People get too hung up on EV, imo. On a $50 bet, whats the difference in EV between a +2 count and a -2 count? I don't believe its anywhere close to the potential gain you have by the pit seeing you with that $50 bet out when the count calls for a $10 one. Remember this, and few people do- you are favored to win or push more than 50% of the time. One of the first things a Comp Counter needs do is forget 90% of how a Card Counter thinks.
I agree with Shad. Comps can be a significant EV boost, and there is no variance. Always positive! I often will put a bigger bet out when the PB is watching, if only for a hand or two (carefully!). Or I'll even call attention to my growing bets.
A 0.3% house edge on a neutral count costs $0.30 on a $100 bet. Sometimes it's worth it.
However, some places have comps that are easier to fence than others; if all you're getting is rooms and buffets, sure, it's a pain to convert these to cash. But some casinos give gas cards, gift cards, merchandise, etc.
One other thing - I've seen most places swear up and down that comps are based not on actual losses but on action, and type of game. Of course the host will have some discretion with rooms, food, and shows, but not as much with more easily sold giveaways like gift cards.
A 0.3% house edge on a neutral count costs $0.30 on a $100 bet. Sometimes it's worth it.
However, some places have comps that are easier to fence than others; if all you're getting is rooms and buffets, sure, it's a pain to convert these to cash. But some casinos give gas cards, gift cards, merchandise, etc.
One other thing - I've seen most places swear up and down that comps are based not on actual losses but on action, and type of game. Of course the host will have some discretion with rooms, food, and shows, but not as much with more easily sold giveaways like gift cards.
Pro21
Well-Known Member
They don't actually give you a ticket. You buy a ticket and they reimburse you for it in cash.Mr. T said:
If you have a foreign passport from Asia Vegas is giving $9000 in "Asian airfare". This has to be some kind of discrimination since only Asian passports can qualify for this money.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
I'm entitled to 2 tickets to just about every show at the MGM in CT. The problem is, I have to be there on the night of the show to pick them up, which makes it impossible to sell them on Ebay or StubHub.shadroch said:
The gas and gift cards have been amazingly profitable for me, and they don't require me to make any changes to my normal counting game.
SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
Technology is making it tougher to get rid of tickets or meals. Now a lot of casinos don't even give out paper vouchers for meals. You show up at the restaurant and must swipe your players card and show id. Same thing for shows some casinos make you show id when they swipe your ticket. I guess they only want the person who earned it to use it.Automatic Monkey said:
i suppose i mis-spoke in my tiredness, thanks for calling me out Shad.Automatic Monkey said:
yes, gas/gift cards are actually worth something in cash, but are usually found on the east coast. same with stuff like gifts (wines, bags, sunglasses, watches). these can be sold and/or used.
i was approaching it from a vegas point of view, where the things most often comped are meals, shows, hotel rooms, concerts/fights, airfare.
unless you are flatbetting upwards of $100 a hand, you wont get concert/fight tix at any of the major strip hotels. these are definitely sellable if you get them, so i concede that point to Shad. same for show tix, and these generally require a lower bet than to get concert/fight tix.
meals and hotel rooms however are the most often comped items and are 50/50 in my head in terms of $ value (hence why i originally said there was not much value in the idea). yes they save me money, but its not something i would just comp count for.
i guess what im saying is, if you dont have the BR or interest in flat betting $100/hand (or spreading up to that much at opportune times per Max Rubin/Shad), i dont view the venture as worthwhile.
me, i get all those in my normal course of play, so i dont have to change a thing, as Monkey has pointed out.
the one notable place the comps actually do put actual cash in your pocket (that i have played and received the comps) is AC. there you could actually squeek out a living flatbetting/opportune spreading $25 to maybe $75 and working off the matchplays, slotplays, and actual cash given away.
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SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
Another thing comps are really a personal thing a lot of times, what might be valuable to one person is useless to another. Locals don't need rooms, if you are travelling with your friends any dump will do but if you are taking the skirt with you its awfully nice to score a suite. A high end meal comp won't save you money if you must leave a $25 tip when you could have eaten at Subway for $5. It all depends on what you want but sometimes you just have to spoil yourself.
Blue Efficacy
Well-Known Member
Nobody ever said you must leave a $25 tip.SystemsTrader said:
Me, personally, I tip fancy waiters the same dollar amount I tip at Denny's. Maybe a little more if the service is actually that good.
Wait staff at these joints generally aren't hurting for cash, so this practice doesn't make me feel like a tightwad.
I know for a FACT that the Harrah's properties in AC take how much you lose or win into consideration as to how much in the way of comps you get. This is partly why I don't play there anymore. There were times when I had a $15 minimum bet out and played for an hour and only got $1 in comps. I'd play for 4 hours and they still wouldn't give me a comped meal. But if I lost $200, then magically they would be more amendable to doing so.johndoe said:
Always make sure when you leave that they have you playing for the right amount of time. I can't tell you how many times they have said to me they didn't have me in the system presumably because of an overnight shift change or some other bs.
IMO, I have very rarely seen any waiters or waitresses who are good at their jobs in AC. It seems that they rarely go out of their way to make sure everything is going well for you and I almost always have to ask them to refill my water or what not. I'm lucky if I have a waiter/waitress who can speak fluent English. So in that respect I tend to tip less in AC then I do at home.Blue Efficacy said:
SystemsTrader
Well-Known Member
Well I mean its all relative, if you get a $200 meal comp at a high end restaurant you should leave a $25 tip. In this situation I'm not leaving the same tip that I would at Denny's.Blue Efficacy said:
i would disagree, at leasst on slot play. have gotten offers for over $100 in slot play per DAY at one casino... though that seems to be coming to an end lately. needless to say, since i dont live there i dont take nearly as much advantage of that type of stuff as i should.Thunder said: