Playing Through Shift Changes

[tribute]

Do you make it a practice to take a break, prior to shift changes, to prevent any information about your play to be passed on to the next shift? I have read books stating the importance of this rule but I don't remember it ever being discussed in this forum.

 

[aslan]

Do you make it a practice to take a break, prior to shift changes, to prevent any information about your play to be passed on to the next shift? I have read books stating the importance of this rule but I don't remember it ever being discussed in this forum.

I never have. I suppose if I had done something on the previous shift that was notable, I might feign quitting and return after the new shift arrives and the old departs. Usually, if i do something that creates heat, I will leave regardless of shift changes. Why give the house a chance to get a good read on you?

 

[tribute]

If RFID is being used, the new shift can access your information (betting patterns, amounts, time at the table, wins/losses, etc.) right there on the computer screen. So they already have a read on you even if you leave and come back on the next shift.

 

[Sucker]

The new shift usually starts to show up a half hour early. During that half hour, the old bosses will fill the new ones in on which players are doing what - buy ins, betting averages, and anything else significant. I make it a habit to leave 5 minutes before that. This may not be extremely important if you're playing by yourself, but if you're playing with a team it can become rather crucial. As Aslan says, why give them a "look" if it's not really necessary?

 

[aslan]

If RFID is being used, the new shift can access your information (betting patterns, amounts, time at the table, wins/losses, etc.) right there on the computer screen. So they already have a read on you even if you leave and come back on the next shift.

You mean, if you use a player's card?

 

[tribute]

You mean, if you use a player's card?

Yes.
And even without a player's card, your table position is tracked on the RFID system. All things considered, it's probably best to go ahead and leave prior to incoming shift personnel.

 

[tribute]

The new shift usually starts to show up a half hour early. During that half hour, the old bosses will fill the new ones in on which players are doing what - buy ins, betting averages, and anything else significant. I make it a habit to leave 5 minutes before that. This may not be extremely important if you're playing by yourself, but if you're playing with a team it can become rather crucial. As Aslan says, why give them a "look" if it's not really necessary?

I have read also that some casinos have their surveillance shift change occur 30 minutes before the new pit people arrive. You may want to exit a half hour earlier to stay under the radar.

 

[aslan]

Yes.
And even without a player's card, your table position is tracked on the RFID system. All things considered, it's probably best to go ahead and leave prior to incoming shift personnel.

I don't follow your reasoning. What does my former table position have to do with my returning to some table or other and some seating position or other? You have me completely baffled.

 

[RJT]

I don't follow your reasoning. What does my former table position have to do with my returning to some table or other and some seating position or other? You have me completely baffled.

RFID is a computer system build into the blackjack table that can not only read the locations of all the cards in the shoe, but also tracks the value of the bets placed each round by each player using mircochips placed in each of the chips. So even without a player's card if you're tombstoning it, the computer will be able *supposedly* to give the pit an exact read out of your play for the whole time you've been sitting in that seat.

RJT.

 

[tribute]

RJT,
I did not know RFID also had the capability to read locations of the cards in the shoe. (That sounds like the Mindplay system.)

Since the computer keeps tabs on me, player's card or no player's card, I'm thinking there may be no advantage to leave the table prior to the shift change. The RFID information stays right there on the computer, ready for the next shift to view anyway, if they want to.

 

[RJT]

RJT,
I did not know RFID also had the capability to read locations of the cards in the shoe. (That sounds like the Mindplay system.)

Since the computer keeps tabs on me, player's card or no player's card, I'm thinking there may be no advantage to leave the table prior to the shift change. The RFID information stays right there on the computer, ready for the next shift to view anyway, if they want to.

I could be getting the two confused and i do remember reading something about them not being allowed to use it to read the order of the cards - but either way they are reading the play as J. Doe play and if you get up and move, unless you have a very observant pit boss that records your seat movements as well as everything else they won't put the 2 different seats together until long after you're out.
I can't see any advantage to playing through a shift change regardless of the situation, and with these computerised chip/bet/card recorders, i don't see the advantages of playing any extended sessions. Short sessions and moving a lot would be the best idea when confronted - even if the computer does analyse your bet movements, it's going to take a number of shoes to recognise that you are following the count - that's if they are even looking at the read outs on you.


RJT.

 

[21forme]

RFID just tracks the chips, not the cards.

At Aria, seems they are using RFID at the cage, but not at the tables, best I can tell.

 

[johndoe]

Correct; RFID only tracks the chips.

However, systems do exist that optically read the cards as they're dealt as well, and they're often coupled with the RFID. They aren't too hard to spot.

 

[aslan]

RFID is a computer system build into the blackjack table that can not only read the locations of all the cards in the shoe, but also tracks the value of the bets placed each round by each player using mircochips placed in each of the chips. So even without a player's card if you're tombstoning it, the computer will be able *supposedly* to give the pit an exact read out of your play for the whole time you've been sitting in that seat.

RJT.

I understand what you are saying, but if the next shift cannot associate the former play with your return, how will that do the house any good? You could return to the same table, different seat, or to another table or to another pit. Am I missing something? Unless they can relate the former play with you, what difference does it make. Without giving up a player's card and since the new shift will not recognize you, it's as if you never played previously. I can be dense, so please indulge me. :laugh:

PS--If the RFID gives identity to your chips and tracks them wherever you go, then I would advise you to cash them in each time you leave a table so they cannot track your whereabouts.

 

[aslan]

I could be getting the two confused and i do remember reading something about them not being allowed to use it to read the order of the cards - but either way they are reading the play as J. Doe play and if you get up and move, unless you have a very observant pit boss that records your seat movements as well as everything else they won't put the 2 different seats together until long after you're out.
I can't see any advantage to playing through a shift change regardless of the situation, and with these computerised chip/bet/card recorders, i don't see the advantages of playing any extended sessions. Short sessions and moving a lot would be the best idea when confronted - even if the computer does analyze your bet movements, it's going to take a number of shoes to recognise that you are following the count - that's if they are even looking at the read outs on you.


RJT.

I don't know about computer analysis of your play, but I do know that some "eyes" only "count with you" for one shoe and assuming the shoe went positive and you raised your bet in conjunction with the count, they will ID you as a card counter. I know another "eye" who would give the benefit of the doubt and count an additional shoe before ID-ing you. Counting behavior is not at all difficult to nail, especially if you routinely raise your bet at the same count. I was barred for raising my bet 3X or 4X. I knew it because the instant I raised my bet the PC came over and told me I could play any other game in the house but not blackjack.