Playing through some comps with BJ. Some Questions.

[Hawklet]

I've been offered a free room at a local Indian Casino (the only casino within 100 miles) for playing green chips for 4 hrs. So playing BS I'm losing about $200 in equity which is aprox the cost of the room.

I have a few questions:

Is the 50 hands/ per hour figure based on a full table or solo? Does the host change the comp based on how many players are playing that slow down the play?

What advantage plays can I take without pissing off the host and screwing myself? Basically any heat is bad. I will be playing ~4 hrs straight most likely.

Can I spread bets from 1-4u? ($25-$100)

Wonging seems like it would be really sketchy. Do I understand it correctly? Whenever the count is <-1 you just go to the bathroom? Won't I be getting up every 20 mins then?

What sort of expectation can I expect without spreading bets huge and without attracting heat? I would be happy with neutral theoretical loss because I'm playing for comps.

 

[mjbballar23]

I've been offered a free room at a local Indian Casino (the only casino within 100 miles) for playing green chips for 4 hrs. So playing BS I'm losing about $200 in equity which is aprox the cost of the room.

I have a few questions:

Is the 50 hands/ per hour figure based on a full table or solo? Does the host change the comp based on how many players are playing that slow down the play?

What advantage plays can I take without pissing off the host and screwing myself? Basically any heat is bad. I will be playing ~4 hrs straight most likely.

Can I spread bets from 1-4u? ($25-$100)

Wonging seems like it would be really sketchy. Do I understand it correctly? Whenever the count is <-1 you just go to the bathroom? Won't I be getting up every 20 mins then?

What sort of expectation can I expect without spreading bets huge and without attracting heat? I would be happy with neutral theoretical loss because I'm playing for comps.

first of all, 50 hands per hour is for a full table. we would need to know more about the game you are playing(aka rules, penetration, # of decks) in order to determine what advantage you can gain and what your disadvantage is just playing basic strategy. a 1 - 4 spread cant beat too many games these days but if you are just trying to minimize losses it should help. if you are playing for comps i would think wonging wouldnt be the best idea. in terms of what you can get away with at your casino, that really depends on the venue and when you play. so basically, if you want any of your questions fully answered, WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.

 

[zengrifter]

I've been offered a free room at a local Indian Casino (the only casino within 100 miles) for playing green chips for 4 hrs. So playing BS I'm losing about $200 in equity which is aprox the cost of the room.

I have a few questions:

Is the 50 hands/ per hour figure based on a full table or solo? Does the host change the comp based on how many players are playing that slow down the play?

What advantage plays can I take without pissing off the host and screwing myself? Basically any heat is bad. I will be playing ~4 hrs straight most likely.

Can I spread bets from 1-4u? ($25-$100)

Wonging seems like it would be really sketchy. Do I understand it correctly? Whenever the count is <-1 you just go to the bathroom? Won't I be getting up every 20 mins then?

What sort of expectation can I expect without spreading bets huge and without attracting heat? I would be happy with neutral theoretical loss because I'm playing for comps.

To appreciate the comp AP science you should purchase Max Rubin's Comp City, available here.

Ideally you would make only a handful of 100 bets only when the boss is clocking your rate, then bet 25 or less and take long breaks... and always at a full table. Now your actual cost on that $200 room is perhaps $20 or less.

Do you know correct basic strategy? This "comp-counting" only works with solid BS. Its more powerful than counting. zg

 

[EasyRhino]

The heat from $100 bets is going to depend heavily on the joint.

But I generally agree with ziggie, if you are just comp-counting, then stick to basic strategy, make big bets when the pit sees it, small ones when he doesn't, and try to slow the pace of play down to a halt. Play slow, find full tables, take breaks, spill drinks.

The pit theoretically tries to adjust for speed of play, but it's only a very very rought approximation, and I'm told they rarely correctly mark very fast or slow play.

So what I'm saying is, wonging is a good thing, since your goal is to get clocked in playing even when you're not.

Assuming it's a shoe game a 1-4 spread won't even turn a profit, but it would reduce your expected loss.

Bigger strategic question for you... what, besides a free room, does this area have to offer you? What is the room going to enable you to do? I mean, if the only point is to go there and lose money at blackjack, then couldn't you save the most money by staying at home at watching tv?

 

[Hawklet]

The rules are 6D S17 Double any, split to 4, no resplit or hit AA, no late surrender, BJ 3:2

Wizard of odds puts house edge at .56%.

They have a Spanish 21 game with S17 that has a .40% edge. Should I just forget about counting and play the Spanish 21 game?

 

[shadroch]

I'd comp-count the Spanish game,but make sure you use the proper strategy for the game. You CANNOT play SP21 with regular BS.

 

[Hawklet]

I understand the BS for Spanish 21. I thought there hasn't been a counting method made for that game yet. What's comp-count?

 

[moo321]

I understand the BS for Spanish 21. I thought there hasn't been a counting method made for that game yet. What's comp-count?

You can count Spanish 21. It's just not nearly as powerful.

 

[Hawklet]

You can count Spanish 21. It's just not nearly as powerful.

Is it worth learning? Is it the same as the Hi-Lo BJ count?

 

[moo321]

Is it worth learning? Is it the same as the Hi-Lo BJ count?

I believe that there are Spanish 21 specific systems, but I also think it can be counted wit Hi-lo. I just have no idea how effective the counting is, and what kind of bet spread you need. I have a feeling its kind of like counting 6 to 5 blackjack: You can do it, but you're probably better off playing 8 deckers with 3 decks cut off and shitty rules.

Edit: I did some research and I stand corrected. The house edge is often quite low for Spanish 21 (.3% or so), and apparently you can get away with murder in terms of a bet spread. There are no published index numbers, though, and no one is quite sure how powerful counting is. Anyone up for trying to program a sim for this?

 

[Kasi]

I've been offered a free room at a local Indian Casino (the only casino within 100 miles) for playing green chips for 4 hrs. So playing BS I'm losing about $200 in equity which is aprox the cost of the room.
QUOTE]

Where do you get that figure? Even at 100 hands an hour, you lose $12.50 an hour in a 0.5% game. And you won't be playing 100 hands an hour in all probability.

Make up just one bet in 4 hours, thru almost any betting system you choose, or, if card counting, wait for a really good count and bet $50, and your EV will be about zero if you win.

And, oh yeah, bring an adequate roll lol.

I mean you probably have a 45% chance of not finishing less than 0 anyway.
And a 62% chance of not losing more than $200.

If Spanish 21 hits a soft-17, don't play it.

 

[21forme]

There is a book coming out on Spanish 21. Schlesinger is very impressed by it. He's done pre-publication review work on it.

 

[Sonny]

I did some research and I stand corrected. The house edge is often quite low for Spanish 21 (.3% or so), and apparently you can get away with murder in terms of a bet spread. There are no published index numbers, though, and no one is quite sure how powerful counting is. Anyone up for trying to program a sim for this?

There are 3 SP21 counting systems published in the Green Chip archives by Wild Bill. He covers the BS, EORs, indices for all 3 systems (and HiLo and Halves as well), EVs, SDs, N0s, and SCOREs for all. It's quite impressive.

The win rates are about half of what a regular BJ game would be, but with a little creativity it can be a good game or a good way to get comps.

-Sonny-

 

[Hawklet]

There are 3 SP21 counting systems published in the Green Chip archives by Wild Bill. He covers the BS, EORs, indices for all 3 systems (and HiLo and Halves as well), EVs, SDs, N0s, and SCOREs for all. It's quite impressive.

The win rates are about half of what a regular BJ game would be, but with a little creativity it can be a good game or a good way to get comps.

-Sonny-

Oh wow that's really cool. Do the pit bosses watch for APs at SP21? Or would I pretty much be free to spread 1-10?

Can you PM me the counting systems?