Practice games vs. the real thing

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

While I hear people bemoaning the 6:5 single deck blackjack games I never seemed to have THAT problem with the game. OK I'll admit my worst ever day at the table was on the single deck 6:5 but my tortured slow death loss of five hundred dollars that afternoon wasn't due to the lower payout on the Ace/Ten.

It was that the amount of people at the table, (seven including the dealer average) tended to dilute that +5 advantage whenever it occurred.

OK so we're on the second deal (they ALWAYS shuffle after two games and never get into the third) and the count is plus 5. So I bet a hundred, my max. Well sure as rain a bunch of high cards DO come out but they dilute the count quickly when spread around seven players. 7 players x 3 cards a player (average) makes 21 cards a game. This necessitates for shuffles after only two games.

So while I may get a ten or ace in the deal the other high cards are quickly paid out to the players before or after me. Thus no advantage. Am surprised i don't hear of this complaint more often.

Now while fiddling with the free blackjack trainer on basic strategy and Hi/Lo count I tend to KILL the House almost every three to four shuffles. Just the opposite of real table action.

Oddly in the large six deck shoes the count remains high (whenever it gets there) for at least a couple hands. Hence the reason I play these games better.

Or: Single deck vs computer, no other players = Huge advantage.
Single deck with multiple players = Sucks.

Conversely: Six deck solo player against computer sucks
Six deck with many players is at least decent.

With numerous players many cards will be dealt at a time. If the deck gets hot or cold it will stay that way for a while in large shoes. Reverse seems true in single deck.

I may go back to a few single decks, but only early in the morning when I'm the only player. Or maybe two players besides the dealer. Any more? I'm going over to the bigger shoes.

 

[bj bob]

Words of the wise

Rule of thumb, Sir.

Every seasoned player on this sight will tell you the same things:
1) Never play SD with more than one other player at the table. The reason is that the "good" cards are diluted among the hands played.
2) The rule of 5/6/7 will eat you alive. The less rounds the dealer deals, the more "high" cards are left undealt. A count of +5 means nothing if that portion of the deck gets shuffled away.
3) In a DD game, don't play with any more than 2 other players.
4) In a 6:5 game you are eventually giving up 30% of your "jackpot". Tell that to any avid VP player and they'll come right out and tell you "No way, I'd never play a machine that paid that!"

 

[jack.jackson]

Caution

[

Now while fiddling with the free blackjack trainer on basic strategy and Hi/Lo count I tend to KILL the House almost every three to four shuffles. Just the opposite of real table action

Not tryin to sound pessimistic but, when i use this sites strategy trainer i do notice that i win slighty more oppossed to real cards. Some might say this could be variance, and they maybe right, however, the cards just seem to fall better for me than they do in real life.

Moral given here is dont take it for granted that just because you can win on software or strategy trainers doesnt mean you can win in the casinos. Just a word of caution. If you want to sustain your confidence of true randomness you might try training with real decks.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

[


Not tryin to sound pessimistic but, when i use this sites strategy trainer i do notice that i win slighty more oppossed to real cards. Some might say this could be variance, and they maybe right, however, the cards just seem to fall better for me than they do in real life.

Moral given here is dont take it for granted that just because you can win on software or strategy trainers doesnt mean you can win in the casinos. Just a word of caution. If you want to sustain your confidence of true randomness you might try training with real decks.

I've wondered that but my reverse has been true. Ken maintains what I think is a tough software package. I mean there have been occasions where I couldn't sustain 40% at basic strategy over a full 45 minutes NOT including pushes into the mix.

Wins + Losses = X

Wins / X = real win percentage.

Now places like Yahoo games are a joke. They just want you to keep coming back to their site and don't care if the rules are easy. The only advantage is you can allow other freebie players at the games and thus sharpen your counting skills with live action.

 

[Sonny]

OK so we're on the second deal (they ALWAYS shuffle after two games and never get into the third) and the count is plus 5. So I bet a hundred, my max.

I think a TC of +5 is too soon to be making your max bet in a 6:5 game. You've barely got an advantage at that point. You could start raising your bets at +5TC (maybe bet 2 units) but your max bet should be much later than that.

-Sonny-

 

[Mimosine]

I think a TC of +5 is too soon to be making your max bet in a 6:5 game. You've barely got an advantage at that point. You could start raising your bets at +5TC (maybe bet 2 units) but your max bet should be much later than that.

-Sonny-

I would agree with Sonny on this point. With a house edge of 0.5 you would Max Bet at TC +4 or TC + 5, with a higher house edge (like 6:5 house edge of 1.5 or 2, i forget cause i don't play that!) YOUR advantage is MUCH lower at TC 4 or 5....

At first I thought TC of +5 might call for more than a 2 unit bet as Sonny suggested, but I think he's spot on. maybe you could max bet at +8 or 9 - good luck seeing that at a full table....

 

[Sonny]

...with a higher house edge (like 6:5 house edge of 1.5 or 2, i forget cause i don't play that!) YOUR advantage is MUCH lower at TC 4 or 5....

Exactly. Also, since a BJ is worth less than usual the advantage raises more slowly. You can't just "slide" your bet spread up by 5 points because your advantage in 3:2 BJ increases faster than it does at a 6:5 game. You'll have to wait longer to raise your bets and ramp them more gradually.

-Sonny-

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Well you could say I learned the hard way that day. The only time I really lost money at the casino. Again about five hundred bucks. In hindsight I can see that I almost should have figured it out on my own that a single deck gets diluted whenever another player enters the game.

Conversely it would seem that a large six deck shoe should stay hot longer once it gets there.

 

[Kasi]

I'll admit my worst ever day at the table was on the single deck 6:5 but my tortured slow death loss of five hundred dollars that afternoon wasn't due to the lower payout on the Ace/Ten.

Don't kid yourself. It probably was.

Don't understand the point of your W/(W+L)=real win percentage either.

That is, do you mean just a percentage of total hands won or dollars won?

No big deal.

Many better games to play than 6:5.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Don't kid yourself. It probably was.

Don't understand the point of your W/(W+L)=real win percentage either.

That is, do you mean just a percentage of total hands won or dollars won?

No big deal.

Many better games to play than 6:5.

Wins vs. losses specifically. In the "free blackjack trainer" on this web site your losses are added to the pushes THEN weighed against the wins. So naturally the won/loss average is skewered to a more negative figure.

Am not counting the actual money made. Generally I can make good money at somewhere around just a 45% win ratio. Have even won money over-all when my luck runs really cold and down into the mid to low thirties.

I also believe that there are opportunities on the extreme low end though I can't prove it specifically. Not as big of opportunities of course but they exist.

When the deck is extremely low in count like minus 20 OR very high like Plus 20 with good penetration there at least exists the knowledge of what to expect: Low cards on the minus and higher cards on the positive sides respectively. Now if you're following proper counting strategy I'd expect you'd probably have left the table and gone to the bar for a bit when the deck dips really low. This however may not be necessary. Good flat bets and adjusted strategy can help one break even and sometimes make some good doubles even on a very low count deck.

Seen in that regard though a dealer showing a ten up card with few available aces on a very low count almost has a "stiff hand". Sure she could have a seventeen, eighteen or nineteen too. However it raises the possibility that she will get a "stiff hand" underneath that ten. Speaking only of the simple math "Hi/Low" counting method.

And while she is more likely to convert that 16 to a 20 or 21 she's still got the problem of having the difficult stiff hand to begin with.

So on that particular test area I've noticed a dealer's ten up card against my own stiff 14 through 16 to be a place to just forget about hitting and risk going bust. Just like on the very high end at plus twenty. I hardly ever hit my sixteens against the dealers ten at a really high count. While the odds of me losing are somewhat high, the chances of going bust are greater than normal.

So I tend to hit the 16 when the true count is around normal but stand whenever it's gone sky high or low.

 

[Cardcounter]

In beat the dealer!

In the old days of blackjack in a single deck where they would deal down to almost the last card. edword thorp said in his book that it might be correct to hit hard 17 regardless of the dealer upcard especially if you know for a fact that there are no cards higher than 4 left in the deck. That would be an example of an extreme negative count where you have an advantage if you adjust your play. You would have to have an extremely good memory that goes beyond most counters.