practicing

[Kieran]

Hi Folks.

I started practicing basic strategy and when I had that down, I started practicing counting. I have CVBJ and CVCX and have been primarily running counting and playing drills. I also hand count decks in less than 30 seconds now. Still a little slow with multiple cards. I have been reading incessantly and have amassed at least 20 books. One thing that strikes me when reading is that there are so many more things to memorize and practice. Which is fine with me. I dont mind hard work. I am just curious if there is anyone who would be willing to share a practice plan with me. Also, at what point should I actually go to a casino. I have not really wanted to go until i feel fully prepared, however with the amount of material out there, I dont know that I will ever know everything i think i need to know to feel prepared. I think I need a coach Any takers

Thanks in advance for any advice.

By the way, my goal is not to play professionally. I have a great job. I am just looking to make some supplemental income in a challenging way.

Thanks again.

 

[Felix Rue_de_Guerre]

What I think

Im no coach, but here's what worked for me

It is best to learn basic strategies for the common rules/#decks and go right into the casinos. Find the cheapest games you can. Consider the negative EV tuition. Do this until you can play automatically while carrying on a conversation with the dealer, waving away the smoke from the cigar next to you, and shutting up the ploppy at first base who has been constantly bi**hing about your play since you hit your A7 vs 10 twenty hands ago.

Then try counting, but don't vary your bet until you are confident you have been keeping an accurate count and maintaining proper basic strategy... all while dealing with distractions.

Next, vary your bets according to the count and play that way for awhile. When you are comfortable with that, start adding indecies.

If you are coming right out of books and practice software to full-blown play the mistakes you make could likely end up costing you more than what I am proposing. There are some horrible distractions in a casino that are sure to degrade your concentration. Even if you are very well read and computer-rehearsed I would recommend doing this. There is no substitute for live action.

-Felix

 

[Hinoon]

Practice

I'm not a pro by any means, so take my advice with a grain of salt...

One of the most important skills you can have is the ability to read a table at a glance. Counting single cards quickly is a good start, but in reality, it's better to be able to read pairs and combinations.

Why? Because it gives your brain a break.

Instead of having to keep a continuous running stream of 1's and neg-1's and 0's, you do the counting in short bursts. That way you have the time to process your BS and any adjustments that need to be made based on the count.

I think of it as the difference between being able to read single letter of the alphabet and being able to read words. A lot of pair combinations effectively cancel each other out (K-3, etc.) And you can train your brain to just ignore that combination.

When you practice, do it with distractions. Practice on the bus, and don't miss your stop. Listen to music and try to sing along with the chorus and stay accurate. Watch television and practice. Learning to count and make decisions in perfect quiet will give you a very unreliable understanding of your ability.

I often deal out full tables-worth of hands without paying attention and then timing how long it takes to get the count at a glance.

As for when to go, I say go now. You won't be perfect...but you may be suprised at how well you perform, and you'll know for sure where you're lacking.

Hope this helps.

HiNoon

 

[Victoria]

keep it simple

Wow, 20 books. Not sure if all your books are worthwhile but one thing for sure is that you might overload yourself with unpracticed information or just too much stuff too soon.
To start I would concentrate on one counting method. 20 books probably means close to a dozen different methods.
Learn the I 18 or enough indices that cover the most common situations that come up in positive counts and slightly negative counts (wong out on very negative ones).
And very importantly, concentrate first on one type of game, SD, DD, or 6D. And do not forget to check the differences in those games for S or H-17.
Also learn the differences between good and weak games.
As you level of comfort increases just keep slowly adding to your arsenal.

 

[learning to count]

aaah the virgin

Basic strategy is very important but then so are the indices of advanced strategy. Vickies right the Il 18 are excellent to learn. Also check out Wongs pro book. High noon is right about card recognition. You should strive to count a deck by one card pulls, two card pulls, three card pulls all under 15 seconds per deck. Then you need to find a mentor. Beware of wolves. Play play play. When you go to Vegas go for a week to ten days. You have to get in the mud to get dirty. You should read books on how the comp system works in vegas. You can stay very cheap and some times free!

 

[stainless steel rat]

my practice

I use CVBJ every day.

Before a casino trip, at least starting a couple of weeks early, I do the following:

1. basic strategy drill. I set CVBJ to give me 60 different starting hands, and I run thru them in under 60 seconds total, or about 1 second per set of 3 cards. Why that fast? It makes BS an unconscious act so that it doesn't distract you from counting. Any error and I start over.

2. 6 deck two-at-a-time running count drill. I set CVBJ to display a pair of cards every .61 seconds. This runs thru the whole shoe in 100-110 seconds. Any error and I start over.

3. full-table drill with start,ing hands (2 cards each). 6 deck shoe. Again, the goal is to complete this in under two minutes. Any error and I do it again.

4. I play a 1 hour session. for 1/2 the session I play heads-up, using the betting ramp and game rules I expect to concentrate on when I get to the casinos. For the other 1/2 of the session, I will add 2 extra players, and now practice with a betting ramp that includes spreading to two hands. I play with the goal of making zero errors. That is my bets, insurance, surrender (if being used) and BS departure indices are all watched by CVBJ and I want to finish the hour with 100% on both the betting accuracy and playing accuracy measures it monitors. I set the speeds way up so that this one hour of play will be at _least_ 600 complete rounds if it were played heads-up (it will go a little slower with multiple players of course).

Once you can get thru the above, your "mechanics" are in good shape. Now you have to deal with the casino distractions, your act to avoid being too obvious, etc.

For a better test in #4 above, do this while watching something on TV. Play the game, watch the program, and again, zero errors is the goal...

 

[jblaze]

in my opinion

In my own opinion, counting down a deck quickly is great practice, and be sure you can do it starting with cards face down so you don't clump count, unless that is going to be your main strategy at the tables. I find it easier to count the cards one by one in shoe games.

BUT, if you are going to seriously play, counting a deck shouldn't even be considered something to practice. It should be subconscious. Most of your training time should be devoted to instantly recalling indices and analyzing your risk having pre-determined your betting strategy. I spend most of my pre-trip practice time using cvdrill's discard tray drills since I wong at 6-8d tables and play according to half decks. I make sure I have down pat what I'm going to bet at what particular count.

As for when to hit the casino, do it now! Even if this means going and backcounting and not even playing, it will give you a sense on what you had better hone in on for practice. When you're comfortable, take a seat and bet the table min. Rehearse in your head what you would do for real. This way, you'll find the adjustments you need to make cheaply. When everything becomes second nature, I think you are ready.

 

[phantom007]

AGREE with EVERYBODY ABOVE.....

for a change!!! Anyhow, congrats. on reading 20 books! Keep reading! Then go backwards! Then go forward again.

"MUST READS" IMHO, include:

---Beat the Dealer...Thorpe....aka, THE OLD TESTAMENT.
---Professional BJ...Wong......aka, THE NEW TESTAMENT.
---BJ for Blood......Carlson...aka, THE SIMPLEST WAY TO LEARN A COMPLEX SYSTEM.
---The Book Casino Managers Fear the Most...Karlins...aka, WHY ARE YOU GAMBLING?

Once you have MASTERED these, suggest:

---BJ Zone...Jacobson...aka, PSYCH + LOGIC applied to BJ.
---The Theory of BJ...Griffin...MATH applied to BJ.
---BJ Autumn...Meadows...Real-life BJ Player Info.
---You've Got Heat...Barfarkel (sp?)...Entertainment + Education.

Then I suggest that you move on to:

---Most every other BJ Book ever written...but be WARY! Harvey makes claims based on "PRELIMINARY COMPUTER SIMULATIONS"! Thomason makes claims, granted, primae faciae, that his conclusions are "Based on playing out 10.000 hands on the Kitchen Table".

Then, once above is all mastered and understood, and to the point that it can be pulled-off in LIVE PLAY, then I suggest that you expand your opportunities:

---"SHUFFLE TRACKING"...George C. & Arnold Snyder, + CV.
---"Ace-Sequencing"....McDowell.

Then I suggest that you get REALLY GREEDY! Books that I have literally received this past week, include:

---Casino Game Protection....Forte.
---Dummy Up and Deal....Barnes.
---BJ Dealing and Supervision...Taucer
---Blackbelt in BJ........Snyder.

WHY?

WHY NOT?

Excluding Snyder, I WANT TO NOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO ME!

ANYHOW, BJ IS A simple/COMPLICATED GAME!

phantom007.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Ditto!

Learn your basic strategy and dive into a cheap ($5 or less) table. Get a player's card so you get comps, it'll make it a break-even game in the long run, usually. There's a saying in sports- "Play like you train, train like you play." Felix's schedule is a good one, start with BS, then add in your play variations, and then start spreading.

 

[Kieran]

distraction

Thanks for the advice HiNoon. I have been trying to work with distraction. When I count decks, I usually do a bunch of trials with the tv on. I count 3 or 4 times during each commercial. At first, the commercials sounded like the adults in the Peanut's cartoons, but now I pay much more attention to them. Another useful method was to play with my girlfriend with the radio on in the background. She was clueless, so I had to explain to her what she needed to do every hand she dealt. When I dealt to her, I had to give her playing advice. Trying to maintain count while doing that was pretty tough Getting better now. Although, I find it tempting to go practice playing at a day care center

Counting pairs and multiple table hands (i.e. on CVBJ) is still very tough. I will keep working on that.

Thanks again.

K

 

[Kieran]

methods

I have been only using the High-Low method, but have become familiar with other counting methods. You are right about all of the information. I think that is my most significant problem at this point. Too much information, too fast, as you put it. That is why I decided to post. Advice like yours can help me sift through all of that information and have a solid focus to start with. Thanks so much.

 

[Kieran]

thanks folks

That is what I plan to do. Like Victoria suggested, I have been basing all of my practice on a 6-deck game with rules similar to what I can find at the casinos near here (Chicago). I even have a shoe with 6 decks at home when I practice on the table. I figured, once I am comfortable with the game in practice I can hit the real tables. I have just been a little nervous about being underprepared. Thanks for the suggestions to just hit the tables. There is no substitute for the real thing and I appreciate the tuition analogy for any losses that result

 

[Kieran]

that's what i will do...

i will just start hitting tables and flat betting while becoming accustomed to the real thing and getting additional practice. i will not spread any bets for a while.

the comps issue is something that I have been a bit confused about. Some suggest that getting rated and getting comps is good. Others say to avoid it, or suggest using different identities. It is okay to just go and play without spreading bets and try to get comps using my name?

Thanks for the list of books, Phantom. I have already read some, but I am not familiar with a few of them. Given that I do not mind acquiring a library, I will be sure to move through your list when the time is appropriate.

I am particularly interested in the Jacobson book. The whole reason I find the game so appealing is my background. I have a Ph.D. in Experimental Psychology. My areas of expertise are Behavior Analysis and Quantitative Methods. In the probability and stats courses I teach, I have always used gambling examples for probability and things like batting averages for frequency distributions. The reason I got into this...For fun, a few months ago, my girlfriend and I went to a riverboat for a weekend. I knew from my background in stats, which games are better than others and liked the idea of bj. However, I was nervous about going to a table to play because of the lack of playing knowledge. So, we played slots. In the end, we lost a little bit of money and I decided that I am going to learn the games that have better odds for the player. I love the concept of blackjack as a game both from the probability standpoint as well as from the psychology standpoint. Given training in each of those areas, I figured that I could do pretty well with it, given sufficient prep. So here I am

 

[Kieran]

will do...

thanks for the advice. in fact, you were the one who suggested that i get the CVBJ and CVCX on another board. i never thanked you for that. i have found the software to be excellent and use it daily. i will take your suggestions on the practice. you have not steered me wrong yet thanks again.

 

[Kieran]

by the way...

i really appreciate the idea of a mentor, but not really sure how to go about getting one. i have read posts by many people on this and another board and there are a few people i would love to email and ask if they would be willing to serve such a function. however, i am very hesitant to just send emails to people. any suggestions on how to go about doing that? for now, if there is anyone in the chicago area, who wants to mentor someone, let me know any advice is greatly appreciated.

k

 

[stainless steel rat]

??

how does "playing with your girlfriend" help you in counting cards?

Oh, you mean playing _cards_ with your girlfriend?

 

[stainless steel rat]

counting a deck

is certainly good practice. But there is far more to do in a casino...

For example, deck estimation to convert RC to TC.

Using the TC quickly to get your (correct) bet out

Computing the TC quickly to make proper BS deviations when there is an index play that applies.

Computing the TC quickly to make insurance (and late surrender) decisions when appropriate.

That's the beauty of CVBJ. You have to do _all_ of that, and do it correctly, to avoid getting tagged with an "error".

Once you can count down a deck or six of cards, that is step one of a dozen or so steps you have to master to play in a casino. CVBJ is about as good a practice tool as you could expect to find, as it makes you do everything that you need to be able to do in a casino. And it will slowly run your speed up so that you could play at a table where superman is dealing full-speed. When you can do that you can play in a casino, and look natural doing so, because the counting activities take a small fraction of your mental acuity. In fact, if you practice enough, you won't even be doing a TC conversion any longer. You just "know" that RC=6, 1.5 decks remain, bet max bet or split 10's vs dealer 6. I don't even realize that TC=4, because enough repetition and it becomes unnecessary, which further reduces mental effort. repetition reduces the "workload" to almost nil...

 

[Victoria]

the mayor's book and comps

From what you said, I think you will really enjoy and get much out of the Mayor's book. Not an abc of counting but instead the thought process along with the elimination of those evil superstitions that plague ploppies.

Concerning comps, get the players card and take the comps. First off, you probably will not be betting big money at the start. If you are playing red chips, with a high bet under $100, most casinos will let you play their 6D shoe games even if they figure out you are counting. Some will not even watch you to evaluate you, with others you will just fit into their tolerance zone which could be much higher than $100. Of course, there are always sweat shops but in time you will learn who they are (often they let you know). So there is no reason to avoid comps.
When your betting range gets higher then you might make the decision to play without a card often. Using myself as an example; I play green to mid black. I have two casinos that I call home in Vegas. I am comped well enough at both, one knows I count and has limited my spread but comps me well enough and gives me enough spread that I give them some hours when I am in town. The other has taken no action towards me yet but I do not spread there as aggressively as I do in the places where I play without a card. At every other casino in Vegas, I play without a card, play very aggressively and win/lose/or draw, am out the door in no more than an hour.

Victoria

 

[phantom007]

Mentor?......

I am not in the Chicago area, nor am I a good teacher, but if you ever want to hit Tunica, let me know!

phantom007.

 

[Kieran]

sounds good...

phantom...how can i get in touch with you?

k