precise casino edge %?

[j.a.o.p.]

Hi all,

i`d like to know the precise edge of following conditions:

CSM!
ENHC
S17
ES(surrender vs A)
Split 3 times to 4 hands (you may resplit Aces aswell,but not hit to them)
DAS (A´s not)
D any 2

using basic strategy provided by Blackjack Basic Strategy Engine
(8 decks, S17, DAS, Early Surrender, No Peek)

Thanks in advance

Mike

ps
my guess:the player has a tiny edge?

 

[blackjackomaha]

IMO, why would you consider a game with a CSM?

 

[SystemsTrader]

i`d like to know the precise edge of following conditions:

CSM!
ENHC
S17
ES(surrender vs A)
Split 3 times to 4 hands (you may resplit Aces aswell,but not hit to them)
DAS (A´s not)
D any 2

using basic strategy provided by Blackjack Basic Strategy Engine
(8 decks, S17, DAS, Early Surrender, No Peek)

my guess:the player has a tiny edge?

No unfortunately the house still has a tiny edge over you by .09% but that is for 8 deck. I've never seen a CSM using 8 decks, it probably uses 6 decks which would reduce the house edge to .06%.

 

[iCountNTrack]

No unfortunately the house still has a tiny edge over you by .09% but that is for 8 deck. I've never seen a CSM using 8 decks, it probably uses 6 decks which would reduce the house edge to .06%.

Actually for the specs he gave (full ES) and using composition dependent combinatorial analysis you get a positive player's edge of +0.101%

 

[assume_R]

Actually for the specs he gave (full ES) and using composition dependent combinatorial analysis you get a positive player's edge of +0.101%

Ah, but that means he couldn't use a basic strategy chart:

using basic strategy provided by Blackjack Basic Strategy Engine

and he'd have to find some way know memorizing the exact composition-dependent correct play in every single situation. Not sure how feasible that would be, and actually how different that would be from B.S....?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Actually for the specs he gave (full ES) and using composition dependent combinatorial analysis you get a positive player's edge of +0.101%

I get -0.08% using the strategy generator here, but that doesn't allow you to specify resplitting aces. RSA adds 0.08% and comp-dependent strategy for 6 decks adds 0.003%. So the game is roughly dead even.

 

[Sucker]

Ah, but that means he couldn't use a basic strategy chart:
and he'd have to find some way know memorizing the exact composition-dependent correct play in every single situation. Not sure how feasible that would be, and actually how different that would be from B.S....?

For an 8 deck CSM, any improvement that a composition-dependent strategy gives over basic strategy will be extremely negligible. A black action player MIGHT save a couple of PENNIES a day over a BS player.

 

[sagefr0g]

using kc's tdca we get -0.0923 EV
errhh it's early surrender vs aces but not tens
and ENHC

 

[iCountNTrack]

using kc's tdca we get -0.0923 EV
errhh it's early surrender vs aces but not tens
and ENHC

Normally when you say ES Vs Ace that would mean full early surrender. I have seen ES vs all ranks but Aces, but i have never seen games with ES to aces only.

 

[iCountNTrack]

Ah, but that means he couldn't use a basic strategy chart:



and he'd have to find some way know memorizing the exact composition-dependent correct play in every single situation. Not sure how feasible that would be, and actually how different that would be from B.S....?

You use the composition dependent to get the most accurate answer, but for 8 decks the difference between composition dependent and total dependent is really minuscule like in the third decimal.

 

[sagefr0g]

Normally when you say ES Vs Ace that would mean full early surrender. I have seen ES vs all ranks but Aces, but i have never seen games with ES to aces only.

ahh ok, the terminology escaped me, lol, i've never seen ES period.:cry::whip:
so against all ranks, errhh, well, sweet! ev = +0.1545

 

[Canceler]

Just Another Original Poster?

ES(surrender vs A)

I think the OP needs to clarify about the surrender. It could mean early surrender against everything, except late surrender against aces.

 

[j.a.o.p.]

I think the OP needs to clarify a bout the surrender. It could mean early surrender against everything, except late surrender against aces.

Hi all,
thanks for discussion.

@Blackjackomaha.
i used to play in this casino a 6 deck shoegame (with this outstanding rules).
the other night when i came in,they accused me being a counter.
(what a bs,i make most money by shuffletracking).
they told me i have to play CSM.(they are scared cause i took them five figure twice).
the general manager (i have a positive relation to him) is on vacation.
i see some chance that i can go back to shoegames when he is back to work.
to lower suspicions i play the CSM .
and yeah the main reasonis,i get a discount if i loose!

don`t be jealous guys,i deserve it.

to be more precise with the conditions:
CSM loaded with 6 decks
ENHC
you can stand,hit,double or surrender any two vs any upcard.
resplit aces but no double or hit on them.

my estimation:
ev of the shoegame is 0.0% for a basic player.
but shouldn`t the CSM effect turn it in the positive???

mike

ps
where can i get this "blackjack and propability computer"?
this link http://www.bjstrat.net/tdca_info_download.html does not work.

 

[j.a.o.p.]

Bump?

 

[k_c]

Hi all,
thanks for discussion.

@Blackjackomaha.
i used to play in this casino a 6 deck shoegame (with this outstanding rules).
the other night when i came in,they accused me being a counter.
(what a bs,i make most money by shuffletracking).
they told me i have to play CSM.(they are scared cause i took them five figure twice).
the general manager (i have a positive relation to him) is on vacation.
i see some chance that i can go back to shoegames when he is back to work.
to lower suspicions i play the CSM .
and yeah the main reasonis,i get a discount if i loose!

don`t be jealous guys,i deserve it.

to be more precise with the conditions:
CSM loaded with 6 decks
ENHC
you can stand,hit,double or surrender any two vs any upcard.
resplit aces but no double or hit on them.

my estimation:
ev of the shoegame is 0.0% for a basic player.
but shouldn`t the CSM effect turn it in the positive???

mike

ps
where can i get this "blackjack and propability computer"?
this link http://www.bjstrat.net/tdca_info_download.html does not work.

I have 2 programs; Composition Dependent Combinatorial Analyzer (cdca) and Blackjack Game and Probability Computer (tdca). I am no longer listing them publicly. If someone wishes to purchase either one it can be done privately. Please go to my website http://www.bjstrat.net and click the Contact link and send an email to the address listed there.

There is an online version of cdca here that computes expected values for blackjack using composition dependent playing strategy for common rules variations.

 

[Canceler]

Bump?

No one is going any further with this until you get the surrender situation straightened out. This "clarification"...

you can stand,hit,double or surrender any two vs any upcard.

...doesn't mention early surrender at all.

 

[assume_R]

ENHC
you can stand,hit,double or surrender any two vs any upcard.

No one is going any further with this until you get the surrender situation straightened out. This "clarification"...
...doesn't mention early surrender at all.

I think if there is no hole card ("ENHC"), and he is allowed to surrender versus any upcard, that would be the same as Early Surrender, no?

 

[k_c]

I think if there is no hole card ("ENHC"), and he is allowed to surrender versus any upcard, that would be the same as Early Surrender, no?

I think in an ENHC game late surrender is handled by placing a lamer on a player's hand whose owner has chosen to late surrender the hand. If it later turns out dealer has blackjack then player loses entire bet and otherwise loses half of bet.

If early surrender was allowed then a player that surrendered would always lose half of wager.

 

[j.a.o.p.]

No one is going any further with this until you get the surrender situation straightened out. This "clarification"...


...doesn't mention early surrender at all.

Sry,i don`t get it.

i mean exactly what i said.
when its my turn i can take following actions:
hit,stand,double,split (if possible) or surrender.vs any upcard.

 

[k_c]

Sry,i don`t get it.

i mean exactly what i said.
when its my turn i can take following actions:
hit,stand,double,split (if possible) or surrender.vs any upcard.

If dealer's up card is 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 then when player surrenders he loses half his bet and that's all there is to it.

If dealer's up card is T or A then there are 2 possibilities:
1) If dealer has blackjack then player has no opportunity to surrender and player loses 100% of bet for a non-blackjack hand. If dealer doesn't have blackjack then player can surrender 50% of bet rather than playing out the hand to a conclusion. This is late surrender.

2) Player has opportunity to surrender 50% of bet before dealer announces whether or not he has blackjack. This is early surrender.

The terms late or early surrender only apply to an up card of ten or ace but you didn't specify which is applicable.