Pushing against a BJ without a BJ

[mrbill]

I learned an interesting lesson over the weekend.

I'm working on learning the KISS counting method from BJ Bluebook II but since I'm not comfortable with it in the casino I just play straight BS.

The game was 6D, H17, NS, DAS. Since H17 doubles 11 against anything I push my double out as soon as I know I have 11. In this case I had $10 bet and got a 7-4. I pushed the $10 double out before the dealer flipped her down card which was a K.

Without thinking the dealer pulled out the first card, flipped over a J and then the Floor person that was watching asked "Did you check for Blackjack?" before giving me the J. So the dealer checked under the K and sure enough she had an A for BJ. Since the J was exposed neither the dealer or the Floor knew what to do. I expected them to push back the double and take the original bet but since they didn't know they called over the Pit boss.

After having the situation explained the Pit said we had a rather fortunate occurrence. Since I had 21 and the dealer also had 21 it was called a Push. He explained that the state of Iowa has a rule that says once a card is played on a hand the dealer cannot have BJ so it has to be called a 21.

Later I asked the Pit what would've happened if I got a 9 on my double. He said unfortunately I would've lost the whole double. Later he came over to me and said there was a 3rd option. Since the dealer checked for BJ before actually delivering the card to me, he could've pushed back the double bet and taken the original bet.

So the lesson I learned was - Don't be so aggressive on my DD, at least wait for the dealer to check for BJ before I push it out.

 

[EasyRhino]

Yep, a time several months ago when a (cute) dealer forgot to check under a ten, and the whole table made their plays, and then she revealed her ace holecard. The floorman made the "customer service decision" to allow everyone to place a late insurance bet if they wished (which everyone did, after I badgered one holdout into taking his insurance).

It's always worth getting the floor's attention for these mistakes, because sometimes you'll get a "better than fair" outcome. Of course, don't be a jerk, and don't blame the dealer, and don't act entitled to anything more than what would have happened regularly.

(In your case, if I had drawn a 9, I would have fought hard on losing the entire double, because I could not have placed the double down if regular procedure was followed... but losing the original bet would be acceptable).

 

[mrbill]

Interesting that they offered "late" insurance since insurance isn't normally an option with a 10 up.

I agree with not doing anything to antagonize the dealer or pit people. In my experience if they have any wiggle room they will generally rule in the players favor and I don't want to give them any reason to do otherwise.

I would've definitely argued if they took the double down also, although based on what they said it's a condition that the state of Iowa put on them to handle it that way. They apparently have a book about and inch thick of rules that the state of Iowa says they must enforce.

 

[Cardcounter]

Policy on 21 vs a Blackjack!

A lot of times the pit boss will give a push to someone who does not have a blackjack but manages to hit to 21 when the dealer fails to check. A lot of times the pit will not want to lose a customer because there is a hand or two that went wrong. So they will rule in favor of the customer and give them a better than fair deal for that one hand with the dispute. For the house if the customer keeps gambling pressuming he is a disadvantaged gambler the house can usually win back there money. If the house rules against him and it causes him to quite gambling and never come back there again than that is usually much more costly than ruling favorably on the hand.

 

[GeorgeD]

A lot of times the pit boss will give a push to someone who does not have a blackjack but manages to hit to 21 when the dealer fails to check. A lot of times the pit will not want to lose a customer because there is a hand or two that went wrong. So they will rule in favor of the customer and give them a better than fair deal for that one hand with the dispute. For the house if the customer keeps gambling pressuming he is a disadvantaged gambler the house can usually win back there money. If the house rules against him and it causes him to quite gambling and never come back there again than that is usually much more costly than ruling favorably on the hand.

I've usually seen some version of this in a dealer mistake. Once the dealer flipped up his down card before play, and showed a 19. Pit boss gave us all the option to pull their bet back or play. I pulled my 15.