Question on compulsive gamblers

[blackchipjim]

I have a quick questions for the general posters here in regards to the law. The other day I was playing at store and a fellow player before leaving stated that he is a recovering gambler. He was cashing in his chips and stated this for the whole table including the dealer and pit boss to hear that he just got out of treatment. I thought that the store maybe libel if they continued to let him play after a statement like that. Is the law the same for stores as it may be for bars or people who serve drinks to the public. blackchipjim

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Know when to stop before you start®

 

[QFIT]

There are some states that allow you to put yourself on a self-ban list, which requires a formal request, not an idle comment. But, if you continue to play in a casino, I don't believe any casino has been found liable. There's just no way that a casino can monitor the list against the huge number of players and it is difficult to go into court and blame the casino for your losses when you walked into the casino yourself. I don't think there is any legal term "recovering gambler." I don't even think it's a medical term. For that matter, I don't think "recovering alcoholic" is a legal or medical term. These are terms used by self-help groups. But I could certainly be wrong.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I have a quick questions for the general posters here in regards to the law. The other day I was playing at store and a fellow player before leaving stated that he is a recovering gambler. He was cashing in his chips and stated this for the whole table including the dealer and pit boss to hear that he just got out of treatment. I thought that the store maybe libel if they continued to let him play after a statement like that. Is the law the same for stores as it may be for bars or people who serve drinks to the public. blackchipjim

It's been tried in court. If a player is self-banned and is allowed to play anyway he might have a claim. But just because he identifies himself at the table as a CG isn't enough of a reason for the casino to stop him from playing. Same way with an known alcoholic walking into a bar; as long as he is not visibly intoxicated at the time the bartender has no justification for not serving him. I've claimed to be a CG myself as part of my act; casino personnel will remain silent when they hear that.

But you never can predict how a court might see it.

 

[Thunder]

I guarantee you if he openly announced everywhere that he was a CC, they'd limit his playing in a hurry.

 

[rukus]

wasnt there a woman who lost like a million bucks or more and tried to sue because she insisted the casino knew she was a compulsive gambler or had placed herself on the list? i think she was an attorney or some other high-paid profession. i wonder what ever happened with that lawsuit. it came up in the last year or two i think.

 

[iwantblackjack]

RE: Article from March 9, 2008: Arelia Margarita Taveras, 37 from NY but now in MN, who lossed nearly $1 million and decided to sue the casinos (against 6 in AC, MGM Grand LV) claiming that they had a duty to notice her compulsive gambling problem and cut her off. She's seeking $20 million lawsuit against the casinos, who gave her high-roller treatment, allowing her to bring her dog in her purse while at the BJ tables, and she has not slept or ate for days. She started gambling in Sept 2003, but it got worse in June 2005 at Resorts AC. She then used her clients' escrow accounts, of about $99k, to finance her gambling habit, and sadly, lost it. She go caught, and while she got her admitted to the Bar May 22, 2002, she was suspended February 20, 2007 and lost her law practice, her apartment, her parents' home, and owes IRS $58,000, plus restitution money for her problems; she supposedly worked as a call center operator in MN. I believe the case was dismissed, according to Case 1:07-cv-04555-RMB-JS Document 58 Filed 09/19/2008, in the District of NJ Camden Vicinage Arelia Margarita Taveras, plaintiff, v. Resorts International Hotel Inc., et al.,Defendants (attorneys for Resorts, Colony Capital LLC, and Trump). And, as of March 28, 2009 news story, she is serving a sentence of up to 9 years in prison.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/casino.atlantic.city.2.970231.html (Archive copy)
---- Indiana Court of Appeals rules compulsive gambler can't sue casino... plaintiff visited Caesar's Riverboat Casino after it offered her free hotel room, drinks, and meals. While at casino, she gambled and lost $125,000 in single evening through the use of 6 counter checks (markers) provided to her by Caesar's. The casino sued plaintiff for failing to provide sufficient funds to cover the checks she had written. Plaintiff countersued, alleging that Caesar's took advantage of her pathological gambling condition to unjustly enrich itself. She contended that because Caesar's knew her to be a compulsive gambler, the casino owed her a duty under common law to protect her from its enticements to gamble. Indiana Court of Appeals. Caesars Riverboat Casino v. Kephart, No. 31A01-0711-CV-530. March 20, 2009. Lawyers USA No. 993-583.
---All state self-exclusion list applications and forms state that you cannot sue the casinos or gaming commission for negligence, or if you are found after-the-fact of playing and winning or losing (and forfeiting wins) if you're on the exclusion list.

 

[Katweezel]

Good luck in recovering...

There are some states that allow you to put yourself on a self-ban list, which requires a formal request, not an idle comment. But, if you continue to play in a casino, I don't believe any casino has been found liable. There's just no way that a casino can monitor the list against the huge number of players and it is difficult to go into court and blame the casino for your losses when you walked into the casino yourself. I don't think there is any legal term "recovering gambler." I don't even think it's a medical term. For that matter, I don't think "recovering alcoholic" is a legal or medical term. These are terms used by self-help groups. But I could certainly be wrong.

A guy recently lost A$50 million playing baccarat badly, mostly at Crown casino in Melbourne. He is suing them. He had banned himself from there, (and various other casinos.) Crown courted him again, when they found out he had been at it again, losing several $M in Vegas. His expensive battery of lawyers have convinced him that he might get some back off Crown. He is going with that advice... (This casino has a history of uh, unwholesome business practices.) Arelia failed but... in her NJ recent case.

 

[creeping panther]

Compulsive

I have a quick questions for the general posters here in regards to the law. The other day I was playing at store and a fellow player before leaving stated that he is a recovering gambler. He was cashing in his chips and stated this for the whole table including the dealer and pit boss to hear that he just got out of treatment. I thought that the store maybe libel if they continued to let him play after a statement like that. Is the law the same for stores as it may be for bars or people who serve drinks to the public. blackchipjim

Gambling can become very addictive as most here know.

Gambling can destroy familys, fortunes, lives.

My advice, when it becomes something that loses the fun factor and you become angry, DANGER.

When you miss family events to gamble, DANGER.

When your gambling begins to affect your moods at work and home, DANGER.

When you begin to chase losses, DANGER.

When you gamble and you have house payments, car payments, credit card payments, DANGER.

When you gamble and have small children at home, DANGER.

When you gamble and lose the entertainment factor, DANGER.

When you can be enjoying a beautiful day outdoors and you are gambling, DANGER.

Non of us are immune to the DANGERS above, I am guilty of a number of them.

I recommend that you have a steady job and career and Play as a side event on a part time basis. Always put work and career FIRST, Playing should come last.

There is NO glamour to the professional life of an AP. Have both, be safe and have a happy life.

CP

 

[sagefr0g]

Gambling can become very addictive as most here know.

Gambling can destroy familys, fortunes, lives.

My advice, when it becomes something that loses the fun factor and you become angry, DANGER.

When you miss family events to gamble, DANGER.

When your gambling begins to affect your moods at work and home, DANGER.

When you begin to chase losses, DANGER.

When you gamble and you have house payments, car payments, credit card payments, DANGER.

When you gamble and have small children at home, DANGER.

When you gamble and lose the entertainment factor, DANGER.

When you can be enjoying a beautiful day outdoors and you are gambling, DANGER.

Non of us are immune to the DANGERS above, I am guilty of a number of them.

I recommend that you have a steady job and career and Play as a side event on a part time basis. Always put work and career FIRST, Playing should come last.

There is NO glamour to the professional life of an AP. Have both, be safe and have a happy life.

CP

what an excellent post, Stealthy Won!
i shall definitely add some of those points to my personal philosophy.

pretty much what i've went by for my dance with chance has been:

Frugal life style but not to the point where it negatively affects friends and loved ones.

Health, fitness and rest needs must be met.

Financial obligations come first.

Social and family life comes first.

Work and ambition related to work comes first.

what ever, doubtless for me if no one else, lol, the need to have such rules to protect us from danger is likely the source of my endless rants, such as this:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=138030&postcount=3
in other words i'd suggest caution against protecting ones well being by relying upon some genius's utility function to the extent that one ignores ones own mind, thoughts and and innate wisdom.

 

[creeping panther]

Wise Won

what an excellent post, Stealthy Won!
i shall definitely add some of those points to my personal philosophy.

pretty much what i've went by for my dance with chance has been:

Frugal life style but not to the point where it negatively affects friends and loved ones.

Health, fitness and rest needs must be met.

Financial obligations come first.

Social and family life comes first.

Work and ambition related to work comes first.

what ever, doubtless for me if no one else, lol, the need to have such rules to protect us from danger is likely the source of my endless rants, such as this:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=138030&postcount=3
in other words i'd suggest caution against protecting ones well being by relying upon some genius's utility function to the extent that one ignores ones own mind, thoughts and and innate wisdom.

Thanks for the kind words.

Again... I know what you are trying to say. I do agree.

CP

 

[GeorgeD]

The signs of Compulsive Gambling per GA. Seven or more indicates a potential problem


1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to gambling?
2. Has gambling ever made your home life unhappy?
3. Did gambling affect your reputation?
4. Have you ever felt remorse after gambling?
5. Did you ever gamble to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?
6. Did gambling cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?
7. After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?
8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?
9. Did you often gamble until your last dollar was gone?
10. Did you ever borrow to finance your gambling?
11. Have you ever sold anything to finance gambling?
12. Were you reluctant to use "gambling money" for normal expenditures?
13. Did gambling make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?
14. Did you ever gamble longer than you had planned?
15. Have you ever gambled to escape worry, trouble, boredom or loneliness?
16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance gambling?
17. Did gambling cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to gamble?
19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of gambling?
20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your gambling?

 

[UK-21]

Proposed new section of the Forum.

Gambling can become very addictive as most here know.

Gambling can destroy familys, fortunes, lives.

My advice, when it becomes something that loses the fun factor and you become angry, DANGER.

When you miss family events to gamble, DANGER.

When your gambling begins to affect your moods at work and home, DANGER.

When you begin to chase losses, DANGER.

When you gamble and you have house payments, car payments, credit card payments, DANGER.

When you gamble and have small children at home, DANGER.

When you gamble and lose the entertainment factor, DANGER.

When you can be enjoying a beautiful day outdoors and you are gambling, DANGER.

Non of us are immune to the DANGERS above, I am guilty of a number of them.

I recommend that you have a steady job and career and Play as a side event on a part time basis. Always put work and career FIRST, Playing should come last.

There is NO glamour to the professional life of an AP. Have both, be safe and have a happy life.

CP

I've spent around a quarter of an hour searching for this posting - profound advice for all, as NOBODY is immune from crossing the invisible line. In my own case I'm aware that a couple of the warning lights have come on and I've taken the hint, so to speak.

Following on from that, I think that it would be responsible to have a separate section of the Forum dedicated to compulsive/addictive play where posts such as the above can be "stickied" for posterity. This site is great, but if it encourages just one single person to follow a route that results in their playing BJ becoming a problem in their life then shame on us all for being a part of it. No doubt that some will scoff at this thought, and bang on about self-accountability and people being responsible for their own actions - although in my experience such arguements usually highlight a lack of understanding of addiction and compulsive behaviour and the drivers behind it.

Ken, thoughts ?