Question to Zengrifter

[Royam]

Hi Zengrifter,

In your previous answer to my question regarding betting strategy, you directed me to a 12 spread if wonging (from 1 to 6-6 units), which is fine, but also a 48 spread if playing all (from 0.25 to 6-6 units). 48 seems pretty extreme and I don't know how I would get away with it without being backed off... does it mean that wonging is nearly required?

Royam

 

[Cyrano]

Ehh??

2 questions:

1) 6-6 units sounds a bit extreme. Do you mean 2 6-unit bets? or do you mean 6 6-unit bets (which is a spread of 1-36)?

2)How did you get a 0.25 unit bet? Is that the same as spreading from 1 unit to 6 8-unit bets?

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Hi Zengrifter,

In your previous answer to my question regarding betting strategy, you directed me to a 12 spread if wonging (from 1 to 6-6 units), which is fine, but also a 48 spread if playing all (from 0.25 to 6-6 units). 48 seems pretty extreme and I don't know how I would get away with it without being backed off... does it mean that wonging is nearly required?

Royam

 

[Royam]

I think...

I understood it this way:

1) yes, 2 hands of 6 units each,

2) 0.25 was just based on a recommendation of a 600 units BR. I guess the idea behind such a low bet was to be able to play (without wonging out) and wait for a high count without getting broke.

2b) This is not the same as spreading from 1 unit to 6 hands of 8 units each, but rather spreading from 1 unit to 2 hands of 24 units. Although you have the same amount of units on the table (48), I guess you wouldn't want to play six hands (you're using too many cards and flushing your advantage down the toilet).

Royam

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Not so

No way, playing 6 hands would be very nice if you could get away with it. 2 or at the most 3 is normally all they allow. Eating up cards when you have the advantage is a good thing to do as long as you're playing them- the more cards you play during the good count, the fewer the dealer and other players will be playing. Increasing and decreasing the number of hands is a form of Wonging. I always play two hands whenever possible to decrease the effects of variance.

You can make plenty of money with a 1-12 spread in a shoe game without Wonging, but Wonging really helps you, and you can get away with a lower spread if you Wong, especially if you Wong in. Wonging out is also very powerful. The only times you don't want to Wong out on bad counts are: when you are also shuffle tracking, and if the penetration at the table where you are playing is so much better than in the rest of the house that you will be losing more by losing pen than you would by playing a few hands at a bad count.

 

[Cyrano]

6 hands..

Atlantis in Reno lets you bet the whole table as long as you bet a min of $10... per the dealer during a chat once.

 

[Royam]

You're right

I forgot that playing 6 hands helps you play more hands per card used by the dealer .

Thanks for correcting me.

Royam

 

[zengrifter]

One common misconception regarding spread calc...

... is that the spread is calc'd from the bottom up. It is NOT. Spread is calc'd from the top-bet down. Thus the 6-6 top-bet is the same -

min acceptable spreads

1D
100 top
25 min

2D
100 top
15 min

6D
100 top
10 (wong)

6D
100 top
5 min (play all) (i would use $2.00)

1-48 spread will NOT generate much heat w/ small stakes 6-8D. zg

 

[Sonny]

Excellent point

> One common misconception regarding spread calc is
> that the spread is calc'd from the bottom up. It
> is NOT. Spread is calc'd from the top-bet down.

I have heard quite a few novice counters saying things like "I play red chips, so for SD I can bet $5-$20 but to play 6D I need to bet $5-$60." That is probably the best way to go broke! As you said, a player should ALWAYS determine his top bet first then spread DOWN from there to avoid overbetting their bankroll.

-Sonny-

 

[Royam]

Thanks for explanation, Zen Master Zen