Real Low Betting Spreads

BlackjackMan312

Well-Known Member
Good Evening Everyone, I have a friend whos interested in Learning Card Counting but wants to start out small..I have a couple questions, because i never used these small of spreads.

Will betting 1-4 Units in a 6 Deck Game have any Benifit?

Will Betting 1-8 Units in a 6 Deck Game have any Benifit?

Write back
Thanks!
 

boneuphtoner

Well-Known Member
If you are looking for a positive expectation, the answer to both of your questions is yes. I brought up the canned HiLo sims in CVCX, S17 DAS RSA, and a 1-4 spread, six decks, $25 minimum bet will net you a SCORE of 8.83 and an hourly win rate of $17.95. That sure beats losing in the long run! A 1-8 spread will give you a SCORE of 21.62 and an hourly win rate of $42.99. Whether these are right for your situation is a question only you can answer.
 

zengrifter

Banned
That sim is a bit misleading because the rules and penetration are better than average. BUT the answer is YES IF you avoid the negative counts - a 1-4 spread at 6D is quite sufficient. zg
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
They key would be to avoid the negative counts.

Even you were play-all, a 1-8 spread would leave an advantage so small that it would be virtually indistinguishable from a coin flip.
 

BlackjackMan312

Well-Known Member
boneuphtoner said:
If you are looking for a positive expectation, the answer to both of your questions is yes. I brought up the canned HiLo sims in CVCX, S17 DAS RSA, and a 1-4 spread, six decks, $25 minimum bet will net you a SCORE of 8.83 and an hourly win rate of $17.95. That sure beats losing in the long run! A 1-8 spread will give you a SCORE of 21.62 and an hourly win rate of $42.99. Whether these are right for your situation is a question only you can answer.
What was the Pen you set the sim at?
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
Back-counting, you can win with no spread. Playing all, you need an aggressive 1-16 or 1-20 spread in most games for it to be worth your while.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
Back-counting, you can win with no spread. Playing all, you need an aggressive 1-16 or 1-20 spread in most games for it to be worth your while.
Also, doesn't it depend on the pen? Really good pen can win at much lower spreads.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
I've found in low min games you can mix up, say, $5 and $10 "min" bets, enough that it is not readily apparent that you are actually spreading 15X or more (on average) when you bet $100. The same goes for $15 and $25 "min" bets. This is good for us beginners who are still building toward a larger BR. I've heard some of you say that no one cares that you are spreading 20X in a low min game, but I am still not totally convinced. I play for longevity at some spots, because for example, in AC there are only a few 6-Deck places, and no double deck games at all. I don't want to shorten my lifespan at these places, plus I am getting terrific comps for the low level I am playing at.
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
EasyRhino said:
They key would be to avoid the negative counts.

Even you were play-all, a 1-8 spread would leave an advantage so small that it would be virtually indistinguishable from a coin flip.
I got to agree with the Rhino here. A 1-4 spread with play all would probably not even give you an advantage in 6 deck. A 1-8 spread, play all would get you about even. A 1-4 would only work with major wonging at a pretty heavy (TC >3) if that. Also keep in mind that you won't be playing hands too often. How valuable is your time?:confused:
 

boneuphtoner

Well-Known Member
What was the Pen you set the sim at?

78%. Again, you won't make much money doing it that way, but those values I quoted from CVCX were using a play all approach. Of course the SCORE and hourly win rate go up if you avoid negative counts, as others said.
 

EmeraldCityBJ

Well-Known Member
As others have suggested, you're not going to make money with such small spreads in a shoe game - especially if you're not wonging. If your goal is to be entertained, certainly a small spread with the count leading to a break-even game is preferable to just playing hunches. If you're new to the game and wanting to get used to playing it in a casino environment, a small spread may be warranted to avoid making costly mistakes by overbetting when you count incorrectly. However, if you're a serious player, and it's your goal to make a good chunk of money, you'll either employ a more aggressive spread or you'll do some wonging.
 
i feel a lot of people on here assume that anything less than the norm is not worth it, but it depends what you want.. do you want to make money? how much? i flat bet and play only positive RUN counts, and i have a ~.3% advantage, and even tho that is small, it is still card counting, and i am still expected to win in the long run.. RoR is more important than advantage or win rate when you dont have much money to gamble with, such as is the case with me, so i feel the important thing that a lot of people overlook is overbetting.. regardless of if your expected to make $50/hr, it wont matter if you only have $2000.. a good compromise would be to spread perhaps $10-$25 or something like that and then only play true counts above -2 or something if you dont like the idea of playing less than half your hands (only positive run counts is about 43%)
 
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