Regarding: Red 7 or KO

Cyrano

Well-Known Member
Strange, when I clicked on "post a response" to Acesfool's message 2 threads down, it sent me back to the threads list.

Anyway, Red7 is actually a veiled attempt to make a level 2 count into a level 1 count. By counting only the red 7's, you're actually counting each 7 as 1/2 the values. The problem comes if you have one color of 7's clumped near the front or the back of the shoe, then your count becomes a little screwy. It's more accurate if you just count all 7's as 1s and just double all the other values. http://www.bjmath.com/main.htm (Archive copy) <--note how close their performance is to each other. It's a tossup, but I would suggest KO if you're not used to count the colored 7's. I've actually heard of a guy who sometimes gets mixed-up because he ignores the black 7's and then forgets to count the red 7's.
 

Adam N. Subtractum

Well-Known Member
Re: color doesn't have dramatic impact...

According to Dr. Brett Harris and Fred Renzy the loss in effiency by counting the colored cards instead of each as .5 is only around 1% each to BC and PE.

I can't fathom anyone having difficulty distinguishing the colors in their count after a little practice. Geez, I take notice of the red sevens just from from having read about the system, lol. Anyway doubling the tags is definitely not recommended IMO, its MUCH more difficult to count up and down by 2. You end up "adding" and "subtracting", instead of just simply "counting". JMO

ANS
 

BradRod

Well-Known Member
Re: color doesn't have dramatic impact...

I know very little about red 7's but, i have used 2 level counting systems. I was using AOII for a short time and now have begun using UBZ2.

I think a 2 level system is very much in the category of counting because for one thing like value cards still cancel and do not have to be counted at all.
example......T and 6(or 5,4,3) are respectively -2 and +2 , net to zero. Likewise A and 2 (or 7) -1 and +1 net to zero.

Once you have neutralized the offsetting cards. Then you are scaling the numbers up or down. counting by 2's is just odds or evens. It seems second nature. But, I guess it all comes down to what you are used to

<<<<<................its MUCH more difficult to count up and down by 2. You end up "adding" and "subtracting", instead of just simply "counting". JMO

ANS >>>>>>>>
 

Cyrano

Well-Known Member
Re: color doesn't have dramatic impact...

Yeah, it's funny. He graduated with honors in Electrical Engineering/Computer Science--a real number-cruncher, but terrible at multi-tasking. He has a hard time side counting and even the rule to NOT count black 7's and to count red 7's throws him. Different people have different caveats.

__
According to Dr. Brett Harris and Fred Renzy the loss in effiency by counting the colored cards instead of each as .5 is only around 1% each to BC and PE.

I can't fathom anyone having difficulty distinguishing the colors in their count after a little practice. Geez, I take notice of the red sevens just from from having read about the system, lol. Anyway doubling the tags is definitely not recommended IMO, its MUCH more difficult to count up and down by 2. You end up "adding" and "subtracting", instead of just simply "counting". JMO

ANS
 

Adam N. Subtractum

Well-Known Member
point taken...

I see you point BR, perhaps I did overstate the difficulty. It really is relative for each individual though, in my case I just want to keep the main count as simple (yet effective) as possible, so have plenty of RAM, Mb, or whatever left over, for other techniques. Just out of curiousity, did you start with a level 2 system?

ANS
 

BradRod

Well-Known Member
Re: point taken...

Actually I have alternated, I have just this week started using UBZ2, the 4th system I have used.

briefly , i started w/ Hi-Lo and found it a little vague.

AOII was my first 2 level system. I thought the power of it was more effective I did not find the 2 level that hard in itself but, found it hard to use because of the TC conversion and need for separate Ace count . Plus it was not strongly recommended for multi deck play that I most easily find near me.

So, tried KO and it was real easy after AOII but, I still wanted a more powerful system and that took me to UBZ2.

Its still early in my first trials but, so far so good.

BradRod
 
Knock Out *LINK*

Hi!

1. What is the correct bet spread for the Knock Out system?

2. In analogy to High-Low's "leave as soon as the count drops below -1", could the same directive be employed with the Knock Out system? (although it would be leave below Knock Out's IRC -20)
 
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