Renzey hand interactions

[Xenophon]

Does anyone know what the top EV hand interaction plays are? Kind of like the illustrious 18 for hand interaction, where the frequency of occurrence and EV are taken into account. The ones you really shouldn't pass up because they have significant EV. Maybe Fred Renzey can post the slick six, or whatever number makes sense, hand interactions. Thanks-

 

[Renzey]

Maybe Fred Renzey can post the slick six, or whatever number makes sense, hand interactions. Thanks-

It's not so much which hand interactions are most profitable, but which ones you'll get the opportunity to come in on. For example, if you could convince somebody to split their 10s against a 6 by saying you like that play and offer to go partners, you'd have a mammoth +28% EV on whatever amount you put up in a neutral count. Realistically though, you'll seldom, if ever be able to get a piece of that one.

Some less insane looking plays that you might actually be able to get in on which carry a huge EV would be something like doubling A/8 against a 6 (+23% EV in a neutral count). Problem there is, it and other soft doubles come up only once every 1100 hands. Another is 9/9 vs. 7 at +18% EV, but it comes up only once every 2300 hands.

The hands you'll more likely see during a session -- and have a reasonable chance to go partners on -- and are most worthwhile are:

...Hand..................EV....................Occurance
11 vs, 9................+11%.................every 275 hands
11 vs. 10................+9%.................every 75 hands
11 vs. A.................+6%.................every 390 hands
10 vs. 8................+15%.................every 360 hands
10 vs. 9.................+7%..................every 360 hands
.9 vs. 7..................+6%.................every 370 hands
19 vs. 10................+7%.................every 75 hands

If there are three other players at your table, somebody else will have one of these hands every 8 rounds.

 

[bj bob]

It's not so much which hand interactions are most profitable, but which ones you'll get the opportunity to come in on. For example, if you could convince somebody to split their 10s against a 6 by saying you like that play and offer to go partners, you'd have a mammoth +28% EV on whatever amount you put up in a neutral count. Realistically though, you'll seldom, if ever be able to get a piece of that one.

Some less insane looking plays that you might actually be able to get in on which carry a huge EV would be something like doubling A/8 against a 6 (+23% EV in a neutral count). Problem there is, it and other soft doubles come up only once every 1100 hands. Another is 9/9 vs. 7 at +18% EV, but it comes up only once every 2300 hands.

The hands you'll more likely see during a session -- and have a reasonable chance to go partners on -- and are most worthwhile are:

...Hand..................EV....................Occurance
11 vs, 9................+11%.................every 275 hands
11 vs. 10................+9%.................every 75 hands
11 vs. A.................+6%.................every 390 hands
10 vs. 8................+15%.................every 360 hands
10 vs. 9.................+7%..................every 360 hands
.9 vs. 7..................+6%.................every 370 hands
19 vs. 10................+7%.................every 75 hands

If there are three other players at your table, somebody else will have one of these hands every 8 rounds.

Fred, Are you saying to split 9,9, vs. 7 with a neutral count? Confused

 

[Renzey]

No, not you -- HIM

BJ Bob -- When you have 9/9 vs. 7, you have two options; stand or split. If you stand, your EV is +40%. If you split, it's +37%. So when you have the hand, your best move is to stand (in a neutral count).

Now when the guy next to you has that hand, you may again have two options; split with him, or do nothing. Taking half of his split gives you an EV of +18.5%. Doing nothing gets you zero.

 

[Xenophon]

Thanks for the reply.

It's not so much which hand interactions are most profitable, but which ones you'll get the opportunity to come in on. For example, if you could convince somebody to split their 10s against a 6 by saying you like that play and offer to go partners, you'd have a mammoth +28% EV on whatever amount you put up in a neutral count. Realistically though, you'll seldom, if ever be able to get a piece of that one.

Some less insane looking plays that you might actually be able to get in on which carry a huge EV would be something like doubling A/8 against a 6 (+23% EV in a neutral count). Problem there is, it and other soft doubles come up only once every 1100 hands. Another is 9/9 vs. 7 at +18% EV, but it comes up only once every 2300 hands.

The hands you'll more likely see during a session -- and have a reasonable chance to go partners on -- and are most worthwhile are:

...Hand..................EV....................Occurance
11 vs, 9................+11%.................every 275 hands
11 vs. 10................+9%.................every 75 hands
11 vs. A.................+6%.................every 390 hands
10 vs. 8................+15%.................every 360 hands
10 vs. 9.................+7%..................every 360 hands
.9 vs. 7..................+6%.................every 370 hands
19 vs. 10................+7%.................every 75 hands

If there are three other players at your table, somebody else will have one of these hands every 8 rounds.

What is the last one? 19 vs. 10?

 

[Renzey]

An Apparent Loser

The old "10 in the hole" theory has many players believing they're an underdog with 19 against a 10. In fact, 19 is a 7% favorite over a playable 10 up. You might say to somebody holding that hand, "I like your 19 -- I'll go halves with ya", and slide him half his bet.

 

[EasyRhino]

Oh god, I thought you meant to hit or double-down.

I guess buying the hand outright would work too. Or best of all, buying the hand at a discount of its value, cutting the casino out of the surrender market (a zg move, I believe?)

 

[Renzey]

Pay a Bonus

You could pay somebody a premium of $26 for their twenty-five dollar 19 against a 10, let them out of the hand with a guaranteed $1 profit, and still have a +3% EV.
If you do the samething with 18 against an 8, you'll have a +6% EV.

 

[bj bob]

BJ Bob -- When you have 9/9 vs. 7, you have two options; stand or split. If you stand, your EV is +40%. If you split, it's +37%. So when you have the hand, your best move is to stand (in a neutral count).

Now when the guy next to you has that hand, you may again have two options; split with him, or do nothing. Taking half of his split gives you an EV of +18.5%. Doing nothing gets you zero.

So, in this paticular case, you're talking the poor sucker into "screwing" himself on his original hand. I guess all is fair in love an BJ.

 

[Renzey]

Grey Area

BJ Bob -- I often wrestle with the moral ethics of many hand interaction plays. In this thread, I basically just laid them out for what they could be.

At the table, I encounter so many self-proclaimed know-it-alls who constantly berate me for my "stupid" play and continuously blame me for their losses by "messing up the cards", that I tend to adopt the attitude of, "Okay, you're so smart -- I'll give you a chance to make a bad play. Let's see if you know enough to turn it down". It usually doesn't bother me if somebody like that goes for it.

I must admit however, that recently I was playing two handed with a quiet, polite lady. She played perfect basic strategy, never quarterbacked the hands after they were over and never criticized my play -- even when I stood on 16 vs. 10 and it actually caused the dealer to make 21.
Soon, I was dealt 6/6 vs. 3 and asked her for advice on the hand. Quickly, she spouted, "Split against 2 thru 6". I offered to go 50-50 partners with her. She shrugged and slid me the chips. One of the 6s turned into a double down and we proceeded to lose all three bets.
Initially, I felt gratified that I had saved 1.5 bets on the hand. But after reflecting, I really don't think she deserved to be taken advantage of like that. In the future, personally, I think I'll be more selective about some hand interaction plays.