Rich in Aces... Now What?

[bj bob]

In the counting system I use I keep a religious ace side-count. Since aces are neutralized it keeps the count balanced, but has little effect on my overall strategy most of the time, except to occasionally indicate when to increase my overall bet. Several questions come to mind. 1)How much,exactly should I raise my bet if say, the count calls for a 2 Unit bet and the DD has shown 0 aces after 1/2 dack has been dealt. What exactly is the current EV with the composition of that deck? and 2) Besides the rather infrequent "close call" decisions ,e.g. the DD 11 calls right at the index vs.A etc. what other plays would this added info come into play to enchance my EV?

 

[zengrifter]

The simple answer is that rich Aces in a balanced Ace-reckoned count do NOT give you any/much betting or PLAYING info. A 7s count is MUCH stronger for this (1-2D). zg

 

[Sonny]

1)How much,exactly should I raise my bet if say, the count calls for a 2 Unit bet and the DD has shown 0 aces after 1/2 dack has been dealt.

It depends on what system you are using. A level-1 system will increase the RC by +1 for every extra ace while a level-2 system will increase the RC by +2. In your example above, there have been no aces after 1/2 deck played. Therefore you are "rich" by 2 aces so you increase the RC by either +2 (level-1) or +4 (level-2). You would then calculate your TC using the adjusted RC to make your bets and revert to your original non-adjusted RC for playing decisions.

2) Besides the rather infrequent "close call" decisions ,e.g. the DD 11 calls right at the index vs.A etc. what other plays would this added info come into play to enchance my EV?

You could use this info for lots of things if you want. Some of the big ones are DD on 8,9,10 (and 11 as you mentioned). There will be a multi-parameter index for each play. Having an extra ace may bring you +1 closer to the index for doubling a 10 but push you -1 farther from doubling an 11. You could then adjust your playing indices based on the ace multi-parameter adjustments. Here’s a link to the Hi-Opt I multi-parameter indices:

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/counting/gordon.htm (Archive copy)

Sound confusing? It is, especially at the tables. That's the main reason that ace-neutral counts have become extinct. They can be very strong systems but they require a lot of effort to achieve a small gain over simpler systems.

-Sonny-

 

[bj bob]

Excellent clarification

Sonny, I always knew vaguely that ace-count varience had "SOME" impact on the remaining deck, but didn't know exactly. I trained myself, fortunately, to keep an accurate count of them and wanted to be able to fully exploit this added info. Your explaination cleared most of this up. One last point I would like to clarify..If a DD has the composition of aces as stated (e.eg.+2 Aces)What would be the pos. EV of that particular deck at that particular point, given the concentrated frequency of potential BJ's for the remainder of that deck?
And,Herr Zg!
I do trust your mathematical BJ analysis implicitly, however, your response as to keeping a 7 side-count has me befuddled. Could you please ellucidate upon the benefits of knowing the amount of sevens and explain how this can be applied to a counter's advantge, especially since I have always assumed that 7's were ,in and of themselves, neutral cards?

 

[zengrifter]

And,Herr Zg!
I do trust your mathematical BJ analysis implicitly, however, your response as to keeping a 7 side-count has me befuddled. Could you please ellucidate upon the benefits of knowing the amount of sevens and explain how this can be applied to a counter's advantge, especially since I have always assumed that 7's were ,in and of themselves, neutral cards?

Anyone care to go first on this? zg

 

[Sonny]

The 7 is a fairly weak card for betting decisions, but it comes in very hand for playing decisions. Every time you're stuck looking at a 14 guess which card you're praying for. Many systems like Hi-Opt I and Hi-Lo don't count the 7 in their main count because it doesn't help the betting very much, but by counting it on the side you can increase the PE of your system quite a bit.

-Sonny-

 

[Sonny]

When using an ace-neutral system it is very important to use the side count. If you're only keeping track of the low cards vs. tens then you will miss out on a lot of +EV opportunities. You may think that a RC of zero does not have an advantage but with a few extra aces mixed in there you could have a good situation.

So what's the EV for two extra aces? Well, without the side count you thought the TC was zero. With the side count the RC becomes +2 for a level-1 system (+4 for level-2). With 26 cards removed from a 2D game the TC is +2 * 0.75 = +1.5 (or +4 * 0.75 = +3). You had almost a +2 (or +3) TC and didn't know it! :cry: That's a big improvement. You'll be missing a lot of good bets if you ignore the aces.

-Sonny-

 

[zengrifter]

The 7 is a fairly weak card for betting decisions, but it comes in very hand for playing decisions. Every time you're stuck looking at a 14 guess which card you're praying for. Many systems like Hi-Opt I and Hi-Lo don't count the 7 in their main count because it doesn't help the betting very much, but by counting it on the side you can increase the PE of your system quite a bit.

The gain for play deviations for Ace density in an Ace-reckoned count is weak, as is such gain for betting adjustment in same. The gain for play deviations for 7s density is quite strong. Start here - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling/browse_frm/thread/7af76f51bb103728

 

[bj bob]

Excuse the Confused

Dear Zgmeister,
After reading Sonny's brilliant reply touting the potential riches to be gained from an accurate ace side-count, I was feeling all warm and fuzzy..for a while, and then I read your retort which seemed to contradict his summary. Then, to make matters worse I linked on to your reference and gathered the following:Ace side- count improves PE by .020 whereas 7 side-count improves PE by .081. Quite a difference! Next step..Where can I find a strategy chart that will enable me to incorporate this new-found gem of knowledge into my BJ repetoir?

 

[zengrifter]

Dear Zgmeister,
After reading Sonny's brilliant reply touting the potential riches to be gained from an accurate ace side-count, I was feeling all warm and fuzzy..for a while, and then I read your retort which seemed to contradict his summary. Then, to make matters worse I linked on to your reference and gathered the following:Ace side- count improves PE by .020 whereas 7 side-count improves PE by .081. Quite a difference! Next step..Where can I find a strategy chart that will enable me to incorporate this new-found gem of knowledge into my BJ repetoir?

First reveiw "How to read side-count tables" in Part 2 (scroll down)
THEN study Part 3 Seven Side Count Strategy Adjustments TABLE (scroll down)

Food for thought - side-counting 7s&8s as a single block/value is stronger still (per Part 1). zg

 

[Sonny]

After reading Sonny's brilliant reply touting the potential riches to be gained from an accurate ace side-count, I was feeling all warm and fuzzy..for a while, and then I read your retort which seemed to contradict his summary.

It's a little confusing because we're talking about many different aspects here. The original question asked about the value of an ace side count for both betting and playing when using an ace-neutral system. The side count will be incredibly valuable for betting but it will not improve your playing much. Also, ZG mentioned that using a side count with an ace-reckoned system (to improve PE) is weak.

Since you are using an ace-neutral system it is vital that you use the ace side count for betting. Keeping another 7/8 side count will be tough but if you can do it more power to you.

-Sonny-

 

[zengrifter]

The original question asked about the value of an ace side count for both betting and playing when using an ace-neutral system.

I missed that - I thought he was talking about Ace-reckoned. However that raises a point - HiLo with a 7s sideC with trump HO1 with an As sideC. zg