Running Bad

[cardcounter0]

Clearing a bonus online ($1/$2 limit), here are the hands I raised preflop with in order:

JJ - lose
AA - lose
JJ - lose
AQs - lose
AQ - lose
AQ - lose
TT - lose
QQ - win small pot
AK - win another very small pot
AQ - lose
99 - lose
AQs - win
AJs - lose
AQ - lose
JJ - lose (I'm starting to hate jacks)
JJ - win (ok, maybe jacks are okay)
AQ - lose
AA - lose (really painful, calling raises all the way, player hits gut shot straight with their unsuited two gapper on the river).
AQ - win
AKs - lose
AK - win
AA - win (must be some kind of software glitch).

450 hands played, won $5, and cleared bonus for an additional $50.

Not to mention that on early Saturday mornings, the players are the worse.
Eeeewwww!! I'm off to the casino to play some $10/$20.

:laugh:

 

[grdred944]

Clearing a bonus online ($1/$2 limit), here are the hands I raised preflop with in order:

JJ - lose
AA - lose
JJ - lose
AQs - lose
AQ - lose
AQ - lose
TT - lose
QQ - win small pot
AK - win another very small pot
AQ - lose
99 - lose
AQs - win
AJs - lose
AQ - lose
JJ - lose (I'm starting to hate jacks)
JJ - win (ok, maybe jacks are okay)
AQ - lose
AA - lose (really painful, calling raises all the way, player hits gut shot straight with their unsuited two gapper on the river).
AQ - win
AKs - lose
AK - win
AA - win (must be some kind of software glitch).

450 hands played, won $5, and cleared bonus for an additional $50.

Not to mention that on early Saturday mornings, the players are the worse.
Eeeewwww!! I'm off to the casino to play some $10/$20.

:laugh:

After your comment about my blackjack post I wanted to see how much of an 'expert' you are and had to chuckle myself that you would whine about these hands.

3 out of 4 JJ lose
6 out of 8 AQ lose
and you have the audacity to even include pocket nines and tens in that list.

OK, you have me crushed when it comes to blackjack. No doubt.

I can only hope we play poker at the same table someday if you are expecting those to hold up more often then they did.

 

[cardcounter0]

you have the audacity to even include pocket nines and tens in that list.

Yes, if you aren't raising preflop with pocket 9s or Ts, I would love to have you at my table.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

And the reason I started recording these hands was because I basically went 1-10 losing with my preflop raise hands. If you consider that normal, then like I said, Welcome to my table!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[moo321]

If it's a loose-passive game, you should consider limping with many of those hands. Contrary to what the experts claim, namely that "preflop equity" is hugely important in these games, it's actually your postflop equity that matter much more.

Raising AQ in early position in an 8 to the flop game folds the hands you want in (a/x) and isolates you out of position when you miss the flop (which you will 2/3 of the time). Raising with 9's-J's isolates you out of position when an overcard comes out, and you get lost in the hand, AND it drives out the people that will pay you when you hit a set.

Raise less in early position, raise more in late when it's folded to you...

 

[cardcounter0]

Hmmm ... I looked at my original post, I didn't see where I stated what position I was in when I raised. But anywhooooo ...

Raise less in early position, raise more in late when it's folded to you...

Great advice. Now show me the loose-passive 8 to the flop game where it is folded to you in late postion. For such a game the best advice is Raise more. period.

Raising AQ in early position in an 8 to the flop game folds the hands you want in (a/x) ...

If it is 8 to the flop, do you think a/x is folding? What do you think those 8 people have, AA?

and isolates you out of position when you miss the flop (which you will 2/3 of the time)...

Right because if I raise, over 4 of those would-be limpers are going to fold? Are we talking about the 8 to flop folded to you in late position game again? 4 callers for two bets is better than 8 callers for 1 bet, but more likely you get 6 callers of the raise. Even if I only hit the flop 2/3 of the time, I like getting 6 to 1 on a 3 to 1 shot, don't you?

Like I said, if you are not raising preflop with 99, TT, and now JJ ... You are welcome at my table anytime.

Contrary to what the experts claim ...

Yeah, what do those experts know anyhow?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[callipygian]

If it's a loose-passive game, you should consider limping with many of those hands.

I disagree - all of those hands should be raised. I probably wouldn't raise 99 UTG but the rest are fine with the caveat that I'll make at the end of this post.

Raising AQ in early position in an 8 to the flop game folds the hands you want in (a/x)

First of all, 8 to the flop is pretty high for an average. 6-7 is more reasonable.

But apart from that, people with Ax generally don't fold to preflop raises ... assuming that you raise enough to begin with. If you're known as someone who only raises AA and KK, suddenly raising AQo is going to knock people out because they think you have AA or KK. On the other hand, if you raise a decent number of hands (and raising in late position with drawing hands such as 98s will do this), people will gladly call a pre-flop raise from you.

The first key is to understand what people undervalue - position is undervalued, as are suited connectors. So people don't realize the difference between raising 98s from the button and raising JJ from UTG - if they see you doing the first, they think you'll raise 98s from any position.

The second key is to make sure they see you showing down an undervalued hand very early on in your session.

 

[moo321]

You guys are free to disagree with me, and I'm not going to argue about it. Read what I wrote again, consider WHY it may or may not be true, and play however you want. You don't have to agree with me. But understand the principle behind what I said: there is more to poker than preflop equity.

But as for me, I'm sure as **** not raising pocket nines in early position in a low limit live game.

 

[N&B]

I see a lot of bad results, too doing that. Loose passive is much better... hedge your winner for the flop, don't tip the hand. I would rather call a raise than raise preflop with a good pocket. YMMV

 

[cardcounter0]

The way to beat a low limit passive game is not by joining the herd and passively limping in yourself.

You make money in poker when the other players make a mistake. When getting 99 in EP, you do not limp in and allow inferior hands to make the mistake of calling a small bet. You raise, and allow inferior hands to make the mistake of calling 2 small bets.

In fact, I raise with ANY POCKET PAIR in early position (at low limit passive limp-fests). Most of the time I check/fold the fold. But then I am paid off to make up for the raise/fold the 1 out of 9 times I flop a set and am able to check/raise.

I would rather call a raise than raise preflop with a good pocket

Really? I would rather 3-bet a raise with a good pocket.

Maybe review my post about why you raise preflop. The pocket pair in EP example is called "Raising for value". The 3-bet a raiser with a good pocket is called "isolating". With the number of limpers, blinds, and future folders already in, I want to take control of the hand (since I have been raised into I have position) and take my chances on the coin-flip of the raisers AK AQ AJ KQ, etc. against my pocket pair.

Or you can passively join the herd. Limp in with pocket pairs, CALL raises instead of re-raise, and otherwise act just as passive as the rest of the table. Then moan and groan when you get sucked out on, and how you can't beat low limits because of the rake, etc.

 

[moo321]

The way to beat a low limit passive game is not by joining the herd and passively limping in yourself.

You make money in poker when the other players make a mistake. When getting 99 in EP, you do not limp in and allow inferior hands to make the mistake of calling a small bet. You raise, and allow inferior hands to make the mistake of calling 2 small bets.

In fact, I raise with ANY POCKET PAIR in early position (at low limit passive limp-fests). Most of the time I check/fold the fold. But then I am paid off to make up for the raise/fold the 1 out of 9 times I flop a set and am able to check/raise.


Really? I would rather 3-bet a raise with a good pocket.

Maybe review my post about why you raise preflop. The pocket pair in EP example is called "Raising for value". The 3-bet a raiser with a good pocket is called "isolating". With the number of limpers, blinds, and future folders already in, I want to take control of the hand (since I have been raised into I have position) and take my chances on the coin-flip of the raisers AK AQ AJ KQ, etc. against my pocket pair.

Or you can passively join the herd. Limp in with pocket pairs, CALL raises instead of re-raise, and otherwise act just as passive as the rest of the table. Then moan and groan when you get sucked out on, and how you can't beat low limits because of the rake, etc.

Alright, believe whatever the hell you want. I'm not taking the time to correct these errors, because you want to be right, not learn to play better.

 

[cardcounter0]

Alright, believe whatever the hell you want. I'm not taking the time to correct these errors, because you want to be right, not learn to play better.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I love it when the entire table is hopping mad at me at how "bad" I play.
In fact, many people try to teach me how to play "better" at the table.

"You raised with that?!?!?!?" "You raised with nothing but a draw?!?!?!"

"I just wish I could learn to play better. Imagine how much I could win then!", I love to say that as I am stacking the chips from a huge pot. That sets the entire table on tilt almost 100% of the time, and then they are calling me down with bottom pair or worse just trying to beat me.

>>> Note for the novice: When the entire table is extremely friendly to you and love to see you come play -- You are a loser, a donator, a fish.
If the entire table is mad at you -- You must be winning.

 

[callipygian]

Alright, believe whatever the hell you want. I'm not taking the time to correct these errors, because you want to be right, not learn to play better.

While I don't agree with cardcounter0 (on a variety of levels), I don't quite agree with you either. The general sentiment of raising less early and raising more late is good, and I think at least you and I, perhaps all three of us, agree.

However, I don't think that raising AQ from early position is going to drive Ax from late position out - the typical low limit hold'em player doesn't understand the value of position - raising AQ from early position is really no different from raising AQ from the button as far as 75% of the table is concerned.

This is entirely why I almost always show, win or lose, when I've raised on the button with 87s and flopped middle pair - the average player sees me raise from early position with AQs and thinks, "he probably has 87 again".

The main difference here is that in a "good" game you raise to increase your odds of winning a pot, as raising drives out hands; in a LLHE game, raising will not increase your odds of winning a pot (or the percentages of pots you win) - it is simply to make the pot bigger to increase your win rate for the same win percentage.

 

[N&B]

Since your OP didn't explain TP vs. Raise, I can only say GFL padre. My methods vary, yours don't.

 

[cardcounter0]

Since your OP didn't explain TP vs. Raise, I can only say GFL padre. My methods vary, yours don't.

If you think you need table position to raise AA KK QQ JJ AKs TT AQs AK 99 AJs AQ then all I can say is "Thanks for the money".
(unless you are limping in knowing someone else is going to raise, at which point you can re-raise).

Other raising hands would be table position dependent, but you notice they were not in my OP.