side bets

[hammer]

which places have decent side bets-
and how many decks...
what about the palms...

I can see lvhitman point about being pissed, if we discuss some
new interesting strategies and acts and the pitties read then
then know..

seroius players betting serious dollars...you know...
.

 

[zengrifter]

The beatable side bets usually require special counts (ie, Over/Under, Royal Match) but some newer ones such as LLadies and the '20s' bet at GGate (I don't know what its called) are exploitable via regular counting, though I don't know what the triggering counts would be for these, anyone? zg

 

[The Mayor]

We could drive vans with speakers mounted on top announcing how to beat blackjack by counting and it would not change a thing. Almost all blackjack players have heard of "counting" and every decent bookstore has great books describing just how to beat the game.

As Alexander Pope said: "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

A "little learning" is exactly what the casinos are banking on, and that is exactly why we can talk about almost anything we like here and only improve our condition.

I said "almost anything"

Here are some threads I would rather not see here:

-- naming dealers who expose hole cards.
-- naming casinos offering promotions like 2/1 blackjack.
-- discussing how to beat side bets that are highly beatable.
-- discussing new ways of thoroughly trashing known games.

If these topics come up, I will just use my common sense to protect the games for the general advantage gaming community. I also hear an earful from my pro friends everytime this site crosses a boundary that is uncomfortable for them. They know I am listening to what they have to say.

--Mayor

 

[zengrifter]

Re: side bets DISAGREE

-- naming casinos offering promotions like 2/1 blackjack.
-- discussing how to beat side bets that are highly beatable.
-- discussing new ways of thoroughly trashing known games.
--------------------

I respectfully disagree on the above-three - what gives Snyder or Grosjean or Wong the right to publish and mass-distribute such things in their time - why would we wait untill one of them spills the beans? Side-bets come and go, promotions come and go - Wong has special high-priced boards and email alerts, Snyder publishes shuffle-tracking series and Over/Under reports, why should CC.com members be penalized UNTIL one of them spills the beans? As you know "information wants to be free," to quote Mitch Kapor. zg

Ps - I think that CC.com should acknowledge a POM every month.

 

[hammer]

Re: side bets/mayor

Mayor,
you are correct, but some of the strategies discussed by a few here
are more than pure counting. I would like to see this board
take a more anti-griffin,anti surveillance approach. Its already
starting-the casinos will have cameras that take your photo and scan
as you walk into the door,they filter through the system to see if you
are one of the better players,heaven forbid.

As far a side bets I did email you directly for a report,but did not
hear back,guess you are involved perhaps with some other projects.

 

[Abraham de Moivre]

Alexander Pope:

"A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again."

moral: Don't do things half-assed.

 

[Mayor]

please send me that email again!

Hammer, please send me that email again, my apologies.

As you correctly stated, I have many things going on at the same time, things do fall through the cracks.

--Mayor

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Hammer Time

"seroius players betting serious dollars...you know..."

That is what one would expect, but from what I know they are not betting large. They are betting head long into a massive advantage. Take a look at Humble's World's Greatest Blackjack Book to see the effect of betting many bets into an advantage. Knowing what the hole card is gives you a 6% advantage. Knowing that the next card you will be dealt is an Ace will give you around a 50% advantage. You can use your imagination to figure out what is being done.

 

[steve]

Do the casinos know their side bets are beatable?

According to Mr. Ko, www.gambology.com, he makes part of his living advising casinos that side bets that they have instituted are beatable. So, according to him, they did not know that the side bet was beatable before he sold them his consulting services. I find this a bit difficult to swallow, I have to think that part of due diligence in purchasing a new game for a casino is to independently verify the beatability of the game. I could be wrong, I guess, perhaps the casinos just accept the game's author's numbers for their "edge" and don't worry about "beatability" as part of their due diligence.

If Mr. Ko is right, if casinos do buy beatable games without checking "beatability" out first, then it is very foolish to be discussing these side bets in public. I, for one, would keep such information a closely guarded secret, share it with only trusted colleagues.

There are three options as to the casino's attitudes toward bj games with side bets: 1)they buy them based on edge and don't investigate "beatability" until/unless counters hammer them (the way over/under got hammered), 2) they know the side bet is "beatable" but simply don't care because they think the non-counters will give them more money than the counters take, or, 3) they know the side bet is "beatable" and plan on backing off any counters they run into.

I have beat 21 +3 by counting the suits, such an obvious ploy I just cannot imagine that any casino offering that game doesn't "know" that someone could do that.

I never, however, discussed publicly exactly HOW I do this. And, i wouldn't. It is too easy to watch someone playing 21 + 3 and tell by their betting pattern that they are using this count, once you know what it is. I found though that 21 + 3 moves so fast and is so difficult to pay out accurately and keep up with (for the poor dealer) that the casinos (the ones I play at anyway) just don't worry about watching this game for counters.

I think that if a new game with a beatable side bet came out that we should assume that the casino doesn't know it is beatable and be very circumspect about discussing that information in public. I think the risks associated with exposing beatability information outweigh the benefits. Besides, Mr. Ko charges casinos for this information, why give it away to them for free?

Just my opinion.

Steve

 

[zengrifter]

"photo and scan" SURE(hint)

Its already starting-the casinos will have cameras that take your photo and scan as you walk into the door,they filter through the system to see if you
are one of the better players,heaven forbid.
--------------

Oh SURE, we got that covered, send me an email... whats the difference if everyone who wants to slip thru the FRS writes me an email and I respond with the tech for___ and for___ and where to___?? zg

(this has only been a hint, if it had contained the real juice you would not now be emailing me)

 

[learning to count]

This is one issue I have to give my humble 1.9 cent oppinion. It is the nature of advantage play to discover weaknesses and screw ups of the casino. It is the tendancy of the counter mentality to keep those secrets that are at hand.
This information is quietly shared by the ones in the know. I have worked for several years to get where I am as far as advantage play goes. Only recently I have been able to meet the right counter breathern and benifit from such intelligence.
The counter community is made up of many different personalities. The one thing that this culture has is the talent of being grifters. They are breed amongst themselves. So when a good thing comes along there is a historical/cultural and social chain of command here.
You have to make your bones; you have to pay your dues; you have to be accepted. Only the masonic fraternities, CIA, MAfia, and other similar organizations/societies are this careful and quiet. I have travelled east to learn knowledge and now I fly west to lay in green fields. Fraternally yours LTC

 

[zengrifter]

Re: side betsTHE BS

The BS, though, is that MOST of the posters who would share the info without a secret handshake, via email with a faceless/nameless handle whom they've threaded with a bit, got the info themselves thru a paysite or secret-handshake board. I have NO secret handshake or pay site or alert service that I am beholden to.

zg(refuses to belong to any group who would have me as a member)

 

[Mayor]

Groucho Marx

I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.

Groucho Marx

 

[learning to count]

Re: Groucho Marx

Ha ha ha LMAO! Touchee. Hey zg I think we all belong here even if you deny it. LTC

 

[zengrifter]

OK, Everbody here...

... who knows any new sidebet technique/theory please immediately email me, your confidence is assured - any new info that I receive I will only share in confidence via email with handles who seem trustworthy. zg(not kidding around)

 

[learning to count]

Re: OK, Everbody here...

Too many loose lips sink ships. We should only share this with the inner corp of our comrades. Now ZG do you know the secret handshake? Okay if you know it then will you promise only to give it to your close freinds like Mcgarvey and LVHCM.

You know I think this secret society thing is catching on! I nominate ZG to be the Grand Puba. I want to take care of the secrets of winning I could be the sgt at arms and watch the vault. The Mayor could be the grand wizard like that dude on the movie the wizard of oz. All the progressionists could be all the evil monkeys. The only thing we need is a dorothy. Make sure she is a FOX! Lets all follow the gold and diamond brick layed road.

LTC Secret tip of the month: is dont bet at the big wheel unless you have a stop watch and time how long it takes until the joker shows back up. Beware though make sure that the spinner gal or guy has the tendacy to use the same pull on the wheel. Read more on this in "Beyond Counting" Grossjean, RGE Publishing.

 

[Abraham de Moivre]

Re: OK, Everbody here...

I always wanted one of those flying monkeys. I think they would make great pets.

Imagine the cover possibilities you could have with a flying monkey at the table!

 

[zengrifter]

OH NO!...

... I will NEVER rob a bank with LTC!

LTC Secret tip of the month: is dont bet at the big wheel unless you have a stop watch and time how long it takes until the joker shows back up. Beware though make sure that the spinner gal or guy has the tendacy to use the same pull on the wheel. Read more on this in "Beyond Counting" Grossjean, RGE Publishing.

 

[zengrifter]

Re: OK, Everbody here... YA!

YA! About as much cover as I get from the FLYING MONKEY that I brought over to CC.com! zg