Size matters!

[aslan]

The large gambling house has maybe 50 to 100 sessions going simultaneously many hours of the day. This makes the house "long-term" very short compared to our individual "long-terms" playing just one session at a time. Plus, the house has tons of money backing its play, and has many, many opponents who expand the house edge upwards to 10% and 20% and higher because of their inept play.

The house is a formidable adversary. It seems to me, to turn counting into a profitable business, rigorous training, a large bankroll, disciplined team play, and a competent team manager are the best prescription for success. Any thoughts on this by the more experienced players in the forum?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

1. Bankroll. Not only the bankroll, but a willingness to endure large swings in the bankroll.

2. A sound system of gaining an advantage, based on an established mathematics of gaming and nothing more. The High-Low count with 18 indices and the proper spread is sufficient.

3. Ability to spend long periods of time in a casino environment without falling prey to the vices dealt therein: gambling, drinking, or worse.

That's it. Real simple, no?
(Note: this advice is for part-time play. Full-timers have totally different things to consider, such as "Why is this better than getting a job?")

 

[aslan]

1. Bankroll. Not only the bankroll, but a willingness to endure large swings in the bankroll.

2. A sound system of gaining an advantage, based on an established mathematics of gaming and nothing more. The High-Low count with 18 indices and the proper spread is sufficient.

3. Ability to spend long periods of time in a casino environment without falling prey to the vices dealt therein: gambling, drinking, or worse.

That's it. Real simple, no?
(Note: this advice is for part-time play. Full-timers have totally different things to consider, such as "Why is this better than getting a job?")

For some, I'm calling to mind my early years, anything is better than getting a job! Well, almost anything.

 

[Bojack1]

Who's to say its not a job. You have good days, you have bad days. You travel frequently just as many other business men do on business trips. You get paid almost as if on commision so at times you work harder than some 9 to 5ers. There are days when nothing seems worth the aggravation, and days when you couldn't dream of doing anything else. As years pass with good money management and investments you can build other lucrative avenues and other possible business ventures. Time can be your friend as well as your enemy. I'm 40 now, I like what I've done, and where I'm going. It hasn't been easy, but it sure could've been worse.

 

[aslan]

Who's to say its not a job. You have good days, you have bad days. You travel frequently just as many other business men do on business trips. You get paid almost as if on commision so at times you work harder than some 9 to 5ers. There are days when nothing seems worth the aggravation, and days when you couldn't dream of doing anything else. As years pass with good money management and investments you can build other lucrative avenues and other possible business ventures. Time can be your friend as well as your enemy. I'm 40 now, I like what I've done, and where I'm going. It hasn't been easy, but it sure could've been worse.

You know what I mean. lol

Job in the traditional sense!

I would have done anything in my youth to make a living playing pool, which I did for a few years, if you can call it that, until my luck ran out. When I wasn't a millionaire by the age of thirty, I decided to get an education and ultimately a job. My hat is off to anyone who did it their way, who was able to pursue the life of their dreams. The man who taught me pool never worked a day in his life, yet he put two children through college and was never wanting for money. He won more than $100,000 three times in the early forties, and that was a lot of money back then! I've known others with similar stories.

One thing about a job, you get paid whether you're at your best or not, and whether you get lucky or not, day in and day out. So, I can't help but respect a man who is able to weather the fickleness of probability with discipline, self-assurance, determination, and skill to carve out a place in a not too friendly world as a free man, in the best sense of those words, and without breaking any laws or infringing on anyone's rights. Kudos to you!

 

[moo321]

Good management, and good systems are absolutely crucial. How will you bet, train players, checkout players skill levels, coordinate play, coordinate travel, handle cash, divide wins, share comps, motivate tired players?

 

[aslan]

Good management, and good systems are absolutely crucial. How will you bet, train players, checkout players skill levels, coordinate play, coordinate travel, handle cash, divide wins, share comps, motivate tired players?

All the attributes of a great CEO. Are you sure they picked the right profession?

 

[moo321]

All the attributes of a great CEO. Are you sure they picked the right profession?

Absolutely. Running a corporation is easy. Running a blackjack team is an actual challenge.

 

[aslan]

Absolutely. Running a corporation is easy. Running a blackjack team is an actual challenge.

I yield!

 

[InPlay]

I knew a lot of smart people in my time. Most of them (99%) don't have 2 nickels to rub toghter. Take a look at the streets of LV. Best advice is to get a real job and don't depend on gambling for your income. I don't think gambling comes with a 401 or pension plan or health insurance. You can see all the bust outs that they thought they were the best now their only income is the $600 a month SS check.

 

[moo321]

I knew a lot of smart people in my time. Most of them (99%) don't have 2 nickels to rub toghter. Take a look at the streets of LV. Best advice is to get a real job and don't depend on gambling for your income. I don't think gambling comes with a 401 or pension plan or health insurance. You can see all the bust outs that they thought they were the best now their only income is the $600 a month SS check.

While this may or may not be true, you need to know your audience. You're telling people on a site dedicated to advantage gambling that advantage gambling isn't a good way to make a living. Expect to be flamed accordingly.

 

[aslan]

While this may or may not be true, you need to know your audience. You're telling people on a site dedicated to advantage gambling that advantage gambling isn't a good way to make a living. Expect to be flamed accordingly.

Yes, by those who are especially good at what they do. I'd say if you decide to do this for a living, you had better be very demanding of yourself, because close isn't good enough. I'd say it isn't a good way to make a living for the average person, because the average person doesn't have what it takes to be good, yet alone great, at anything that is highly demanding--poker, blackjack, football, basketball, pool, chess, ping pong, checkers, gin rummy, you name it. You hear it said time and time again in the forum that there are hundreds of failed counters for every successful one. If it were easy, not only would everyone be doing it, but everyone would be rich to boot.

 

[moo321]

Yes, by those who are especially good at what they do. I'd say if you decide to do this for a living, you had better be very demanding of yourself, because close isn't good enough. I'd say it isn't a good way to make a living for the average person, because the average person doesn't have what it takes to be good, yet alone great, at anything that is highly demanding--poker, blackjack, football, basketball, pool, chess, ping pong, checkers, gin rummy, you name it. You hear it said time and time again in the forum that there are hundreds of failed counters for every successful one. If it were easy, not only would everyone be doing it, but everyone would be rich to boot.

I would highly recommend that anyone who wants to go pro be able to have at least 2-3 different things they can do. Blackjack, video poker, sports betting, poker, whatever. But just being a counter can get boring, and cause you to get burned out.

 

[aslan]

I would highly recommend that anyone who wants to go pro be able to have at least 2-3 different things they can do. Blackjack, video poker, sports betting, poker, whatever. But just being a counter can get boring, and cause you to get burned out.

All the old time poker players seem to have the same lament: "Where can you find a good game of stud?"

It seems like it's harder for good players to make a living even at poker, and conversely, easier for poor players to get lucky and hit some big scores, what with the current craze for hold'em.

 

[InPlay]

While this may or may not be true, you need to know your audience. You're telling people on a site dedicated to advantage gambling that advantage gambling isn't a good way to make a living. Expect to be flamed accordingly.

It seems to me most of the people are want to be's. In the real world it don't work that way. Like I said before I have been gambling in one form or another for 40 years. I could always hold my own no matter what form it was. Sports betting was best. The best thing also was that I had a real job that paid money and benefits. I don;t know of any benefits for AP after 30 years on the tables other then looking for another stake. Are you married ? Do you have kids ? Try makeing that $80,000 grand a year to support your household. To make that kind of money you will have to be playing for more then red and green chips. Can you take the stress. Can you wife take it ? Can you tell your kids daddy will buy you a bike if he wins some money at the casino. Lots of luck on your life as a PRO but make sure you are well funded from your real job if you have one. :laugh:

 

[Bojack1]

While this may or may not be true, you need to know your audience. You're telling people on a site dedicated to advantage gambling that advantage gambling isn't a good way to make a living. Expect to be flamed accordingly.

Advantage gambling as the average person knows and plays it is not a good way to make a living. From what I read here there might be some people that know how to play with advantage, but not for a living. That being said there may be some who maybe could, given different circumstances. If you have an established career and a family, then there would be no more of a worse move then to quit your job and try being an AP for a living. Unless of course you could leave your job and still manage your current lifestyle through other avenues of income not including advantage play. But even then you would not be able let playing eat up your personal expense money or your through.

A different scenario is one of a young person with some real skill and a hefty bankroll with no real financial and or family responsibilities giving it a try. The problem here is that usually very few meet all that criteria. Some might have skill but no real bankroll, or any other combination without the whole package.

Another very important trait that I believe is helpful is, not liking gambling. You know if you fit this bill. Most new AP's, long time part timers, and beaten down pros love the rush of the gamble. That can't be what drives you, and it will keep you in the game even when you shouldn't be there. I'm not saying be an emotionless robot, thats not probable either. What I'm saying is in a professional sense of playing, a win is a good day just like a good day at work, and a loss is a bad day in the same manner of thinking. If you live and die emotionally with ups and downs of the game, you will burn out and forget why it is you play this game, but still not be able to stop.

There is a way a lot of pros play this game without too much worry of living day by day. That is they are staked, or backed by investors. Its sad to say but true that some players are better marketers than players, and as long as they can sell themselves and a system, they will always have money and be able to play. That is also another avenue most either don't have access to or want to be a part of.

Its true there is no pension plan or medical benefits for AP's, but that doesn't mean you can't set yourself up just as many self employed people do. But from what I've seen the line between a gambler and your average AP is pretty thin as what usually drives them to play is the same. That being the case I don't think playing part time for either is a horrible idea, but obviously it should be at least a little better for the AP. Either way though I think its a terrible idea for most to try to make playing their primary source of income. Maybe not all, but most from what I've seen.

 

[InPlay]

Advantage gambling as the average person knows and plays it is not a good way to make a living. From what I read here there might be some people that know how to play with advantage, but not for a living. That being said there may be some who maybe could, given different circumstances. If you have an established career and a family, then there would be no more of a worse move then to quit your job and try being an AP for a living. Unless of course you could leave your job and still manage your current lifestyle through other avenues of income not including advantage play. But even then you would not be able let playing eat up your personal expense money or your through.

A different scenario is one of a young person with some real skill and a hefty bankroll with no real financial and or family responsibilities giving it a try. The problem here is that usually very few meet all that criteria. Some might have skill but no real bankroll, or any other combination without the whole package.

Another very important trait that I believe is helpful is, not liking gambling. You know if you fit this bill. Most new AP's, long time part timers, and beaten down pros love the rush of the gamble. That can't be what drives you, and it will keep you in the game even when you shouldn't be there. I'm not saying be an emotionless robot, thats not probable either. What I'm saying is in a professional sense of playing, a win is a good day just like a good day at work, and a loss is a bad day in the same manner of thinking. If you live and die emotionally with ups and downs of the game, you will burn out and forget why it is you play this game, but still not be able to stop.

There is a way a lot of pros play this game without too much worry of living day by day. That is they are staked, or backed by investors. Its sad to say but true that some players are better marketers than players, and as long as they can sell themselves and a system, they will always have money and be able to play. That is also another avenue most either don't have access to or want to be a part of.

Its true there is no pension plan or medical benefits for AP's, but that doesn't mean you can't set yourself up just as many self employed people do. But from what I've seen the line between a gambler and your average AP is pretty thin as what usually drives them to play is the same. That being the case I don't think playing part time for either is a horrible idea, but obviously it should be at least a little better for the AP. Either way though I think its a terrible idea for most to try to make playing their primary source of income. Maybe not all, but most from what I've seen.

Well said !

 

[sagefr0g]

........

A different scenario is one of a young person with some real skill and a hefty bankroll with no real financial and or family responsibilities giving it a try. The problem here is that usually very few meet all that criteria. Some might have skill but no real bankroll, or any other combination without the whole package.

......

then there is a few of us that managed to survive the work a day world and having retired can still manage to get by. lots of time on our hands and enough financial security to maybe risk a little to maybe get a little. and if it's fun and even intersting so much the better. doubtless a pro AP can't afford the luxury of taking ones time and smelling the rose's as they say. much less is there any economic sense in stepping back from the table when things aren't going well or when things are going well since for the Pro it's all just one long game. probably not for a gambler such as myself either lol. but i can do it and as Kasi has said "No big deal.... nothing life changing." but anyway it's nice to be able to have some fun and if you can hang on to that advantage some how maybe even come out ahead. so just two cents from this corner but hats off to you guys who can and do make a living at it.