Speed Counting

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thenewbimack

New Member
Hey guys 1st thread here... ran across a site the other day talking about a new counting method that has supposedly been proven over multiple tests that just as card counting does, it also tracks when the advantage shifts to the player accurately and in a much easier manner. The concept seems easy, but is it too easy? Add up the amount of cards on the table that have a value 2-6 including the dealers cards, then minus that number from the total number of hands.

Ex. player 1 - player 2 - player 3 - dealer
10/2/7 (19) - 5/5/8 (18) - 10/10 (20) - 4/4/18 (18)

Using the above example, there are 5 cards with a value of 2-6, and a total of 4 hands, giving a speed count of +1.

Thats pretty much all the info I can gather without actually purchasing a book or video. I'm interested in this, but wanted to check in here first to see if its worth looking further at. Let me know guys! Thanks
 
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Sucker

Well-Known Member
It's not possible for this method to be even HALF as strong as traditional card counting methods. Learn a simple hi-lo system. After you've applied it for awhile (and sooner than you might think), you'll get to the point where you'll be able to just GLANCE at the board & know the count. You'll find that it's about as easy as falling asleep. Because it will get so easy that your biggest problem will be trying to KEEP from falling asleep, out of boredom.

I'll stop short of calling this system a scam, but I'm pretty sure that the person running that site is making more money SELLING his system than he is by implementing it himself. Like the old saying goes: "Those who can; do. Those who cannot; TEACH!"

P.S.: Welcome to the forum!
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
Use the "search" option and look for posts involving Speed Count or Golden Touch Blackjack.
I, myself, think its an okay method for a beginner on his first trip or two but other more experianced players think it is not.
 
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thenewbimack

New Member
thanks for the comments guys! I'll have to search on that, didn't even think there would already be posts on it.

Btw... my name was supposed to be "thenewbigmack" but now it sounds like i'm bi because i missed a "g" lol. oh well
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
thenewbimack said:
thanks for the comments guys! I'll have to search on that, didn't even think there would already be posts on it.

Btw... my name was supposed to be "thenewbigmack" but now it sounds like i'm bi because i missed a "g" lol. oh well
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Maybe Ken, if he's listening, can repair your name to what you intended.
 
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thenewbigmack

New Member
I have now signed up with my actual name... thanks. Mods, feel free to delete this post. I'm going to take up learning KO Rookie system instead... seems much better. One things I'm trying to figure out is this...

Conditions IRC Key Count
1 deck 0 +2
2 decks -4 +1
6 decks -20 -4
8 decks -28 -6

for 6 decks, could I just use an IRC of 0 and a Key count of +16 instead? This seems much easier. Maybe even starting at +10 for an IRC so the count doesn't go negative often?? If this doesn't work this way, someone stop me before I start practicing this :) Thanks
 
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assume_R

Well-Known Member
thenewbigmack said:
for 6 decks, could I just use an IRC of 0 and a Key count of +16 instead? This seems much easier. Maybe even starting at +10 for an IRC so the count doesn't go negative often?? If this doesn't work this way, someone stop me before I start practicing this :) Thanks
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Welcome!

For an unbalanced count in which you're not dividing, you can start at any Initial Running Count (IRC). Just make sure you adjust all your index numbers too. So for 6 deck, if you want to start at +10 instead of -20 so it's never negative, then make sure you add +30 to all your index numbers (check out the blackjack school on the left to learn about index numbers).

If you are going to be dividing by decks remaining at any point, then you can't just start at any IRC you want.

Hope that's clear for a newbie.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
thenewbigmack said:
I have now signed up with my actual name... thanks. Mods, feel free to delete this post. I'm going to take up learning KO Rookie system instead... seems much better. One things I'm trying to figure out is this...

Conditions IRC Key Count
1 deck 0 +2
2 decks -4 +1
6 decks -20 -4
8 decks -28 -6

for 6 decks, could I just use an IRC of 0 and a Key count of +16 instead? This seems much easier. Maybe even starting at +10 for an IRC so the count doesn't go negative often?? If this doesn't work this way, someone stop me before I start practicing this :) Thanks
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The count was designed to coincide true count +4 with KO +4 so that at the most important point in your count, the pivot point, where you will begin betting max bet, this design is at its absolute most accurate place in a long sliding scale.

What I did to accommodate my desire for no negative numbers was to set my IRC at 80 for 6 deck. After I reach 100 (ie, zero) I begin counting by single digits (1, 2, 3, etc.). In this way, there is never the possibility for a negative number in your count.
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
Speed count

I used the system long time ago and found it to be very weak. Lost opportunities is it's biggest problem and weak information is the next. If you spent the time to learn it you should take the extra time to learn the KO count system which is just as easy and more accurate. I wouldn't waste the time or money on the book like I did for the golden touch.
 
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thenewbigmack

New Member
aslan said:
The count was designed to coincide true count +4 with KO +4 so that at the most important point in your count, the pivot point, where you will begin betting max bet, this design is at its absolute most accurate place in a long sliding scale.

What I did to accommodate my desire for no negative numbers was to set my IRC at 80 for 6 deck. After I reach 100 (ie, zero) I begin counting by single digits (1, 2, 3, etc.). In this way, there is never the possibility for a negative number in your count.
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I see what you mean here.. however, wasn't it kind of a pain when the count varied between 99 and 0? seems like starting at 10 and and start betting more when I hit a count of 16 would be easier. However, I don't really know the tendencies of the KO count, so maybe once you start progressing in the count its rare to back track a lot? I don't know yet =P
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
thenewbigmack said:
I see what you mean here.. however, wasn't it kind of a pain when the count varied between 99 and 0? seems like starting at 10 and and start betting more when I hit a count of 16 would be easier. However, I don't really know the tendencies of the KO count, so maybe once you start progressing in the count its rare to back track a lot? I don't know yet =P
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The count is usually in the negative territory, since you begin at -28 for 8-deck and -20 for 6-deck.

There is absolutely no difficulty between 99 and 100 or zero, as you say. In fact, you can continue to go 101, 102, 103, if you want, but it is easier (shorter) to just say 1, 2, 3. Someone here on the Forum suggested using 100 as zero; I think it was Fred Renzey, or it might have been Ken or Sonny. It is a delight to never have to process negative numbers.

The tendency of any unbalanced count is to very slowly move in a positive direction, owing to the fact that you have tagged 24 more low cards than high cards. So, in a perfectly distributed shoe, you would gain +4 each deck. This means that even after half the cards have been dealt, you would still be at 92 (-8) in 6-deck. Oftentimes, because of clumping of cards (which is a characteristic of most randomly shuffled shoes), the count will go down, or hover in place, instead. It all depends on whether clumps of small cards or clumps of large cards appear first.

An interesting sidelight, if you want to keep track of true count, there are several checkpoints. At 6-deck, your first checkpoint is 89 (-11) with one deck dealt, 92 (-8) with two decks dealt, 95 (-5) with 3 decks dealt, and so on adding by 3's. These checkpoints represent your key count, or TC +1, or the point where you have a 1/2% edge and begin to bet 2 units instead of 1 unit. In KO, without true count adjustment, you must wait until 96 (-4) before you can deduce that your key count has been reached.
 
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C

Cat_in_awe

Member
thenewbimack said:
Hey guys 1st thread here... ran across a site the other day talking about a new counting method that has supposedly been proven over multiple tests that just as card counting does, it also tracks when the advantage shifts to the player accurately and in a much easier manner. The concept seems easy, but is it too easy? Add up the amount of cards on the table that have a value 2-6 including the dealers cards, then minus that number from the total number of hands.

Ex. player 1 - player 2 - player 3 - dealer
10/2/7 (19) - 5/5/8 (18) - 10/10 (20) - 4/4/18 (18)

Using the above example, there are 5 cards with a value of 2-6, and a total of 4 hands, giving a speed count of +1.

Thats pretty much all the info I can gather without actually purchasing a book or video. I'm interested in this, but wanted to check in here first to see if its worth looking further at. Let me know guys! Thanks
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You can read about this method in complete detail that was independently 'discovered' by Carlos Zilzer, (separate from the 'Golden Touch' method.)

URL: http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Easy_OPP_Card_Counting_System.htm

I used this method for about 5 years, (but have recently 'graduated' to Red7), and earned about 400 units over 19 trips.

It is certainly less accurate than any full counting system, but as Arnold Snyder has been quoted, it still 'gets the money out there'.

GL
 
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