splitting 8s vs A

[Mimosine]

i was in a really ugly position a few weeks back in a TC > +4 count and got dealt (with max bet out) a pair of 8s v A (H17, NLS). dealer didn't have BJ so i split, got an 8 said to myself " oh great." split again, got the 4th 8, thought to myself "oh $hit." at this point in time, when it was too late to turn back, with 4 max bets out, i started to wonder if this was the right play - if maybe standing on the original 8s was the best move and thus risking one bet?

i got dealt on top of my 4 8s, 3 Ts, and a 9, for 18, 18, 18, 17......

in the end i pushed 3 and lost one. but really wish i knew if there was a better move... had i stood, the net result would have been the same, but that might not have made it the right move.....

maybe learning index plays for splitting is a waste of time, since they happen so infrequently....

 

[sagefr0g]

i was in a really ugly position a few weeks back in a TC > +4 count and got dealt (with max bet out) a pair of 8s v A (H17, NLS). dealer didn't have BJ so i split, got an 8 said to myself " oh great." split again, got the 4th 8, thought to myself "oh $hit." at this point in time, when it was too late to turn back, with 4 max bets out, i started to wonder if this was the right play - if maybe standing on the original 8s was the best move and thus risking one bet?

i got dealt on top of my 4 8s, 3 Ts, and a 9, for 18, 18, 18, 17......

in the end i pushed 3 and lost one. but really wish i knew if there was a better move... had i stood, the net result would have been the same, but that might not have made it the right move.....

maybe learning index plays for splitting is a waste of time, since they happen so infrequently....

you'd surrender instead of splitting the 8's if the dealer had a ten at tc>=3 for six deck s17
thats all i can think of.

 

[Mimosine]

you'd surrender instead of splitting the 8's if the dealer had a ten at tc>=3 for six deck s17
thats all i can think of.

except it was a NO LS game :/

 

[sagefr0g]

except it was a NO LS game :/

oh and i missed your title was splitting 8's vs A ....
there might be something for risk adverse play on this one. but i doubt it. probably just supposed to split the 8's. actually from your post it didn't turn out to badly for you.

 

[positiveEV]

The true count required to stand with 8,8 against a 10 is +8, so I think you made the right move.

 

[Mimosine]

The true count required to stand with 8,8 against a 10 is +8, so I think you made the right move.

thanks! TC was around 4-5 before i split, and about 1-2 after!

 

[jetace]

The true count required to stand with 8,8 against a 10 is +8, so I think you made the right move.

But he was 8,8 vs. A, not 10, so the index is probably different.
What count system were you using?

 

[jack.jackson]

I think so

But he was 8,8 vs. A, not 10, so the index is probably different.
What count system were you using?

In straight blackjack,
This hand has no index it's a mandatory split,[unless you lose additional wager] even if you cant double after splitting and ls is offered, [pair of 8's,not 16] the higher the count, the more favorable this hand becomes, though still a losing hand. However, i might of been reluctant to split up to 4 max bet's especially if i was playing on a limited bankroll.

Would you Sr pair of 88's vs dealer A in a high count?????? I wouldnt think so!

 

[Mimosine]

Would you Sr pair of 88's vs dealer A in a high count?????? I wouldnt think so!

in a H17 game, surrendering 8,8 v A is a BS play!!!!

 

[positiveEV]

In straight blackjack,
This hand has no index it's a mandatory split,[unless you lose additional wager] even if you cant double after splitting and ls is offered, [pair of 8's,not 16] the higher the count, the more favorable this hand becomes, though still a losing hand. However, i might of been reluctant to split up to 4 max bet's especially if i was playing on a limited bankroll.

Would you Sr pair of 88's vs dealer A in a high count?????? I wouldnt think so!

in a H17 game, surrendering 8,8 v A is a BS play!!!!

except it was a NO LS game :/

.

 

[jack.jackson]

so it is

in a H17 game, surrendering 8,8 v A is a BS play!!!!

Thanks alot for the correction,
Just took a look at the basic strategy engine and to my surprise in the 1D BS says to split with any/all rules.
2D says Sr, on H17, no DAS, otherwise split.
3 or more decks S17 split regardless, wether you can double after splits or not.
3 or more decks H17 Sr regardless, wether you can double after splits or not.

To my surprise, i just reviewed blackjack therapy and theres no playing index in LS for 8,8 vs A in the zen count, A02, or the victor apc, however there are index,s to hit this hand if the count is low enough. Im left concluded that a pair of 8,8's are valued as 16 in a ls situation. All three have an index -1 or higher, for i assume this is the index if you hold a pair of 8,8's

 

[Cardcounter]

You made the right play!

Splitting 8's vs an Ace is the right play and it is actually better for you in positive counts. The dealer has already checked for blackjack and does not have it so the dealer might have a 5 underneath and then draw 2 ten's to bust. Your result wasn't bad at all. But if you question your plays because the result was a bad one for a hand or two you will not be able to make profitable plays and will lose. Most players questions plays when they have to put out more money on the table weather it be for a double or a split especially the few times they lose it. They question it much more than making a wrong play and losing with a single bet.

 

[Mimosine]

Your result wasn't bad at all. But if you question your plays because the result was a bad one for a hand or two you will not be able to make profitable plays and will lose. Most players questions plays when they have to put out more money on the table weather it be for a double or a split especially the few times they lose it.

point well taken. personally, i would have questioned it no matter how it turned out as soon as i saw the fourth 8, i was in uncharted territory (for me), this was before i even got my first hit card. had i won all the hands i would have questioned the play anyway, because in a plus count, the best i could hope for are 18s.... i was really rooting for 2's and 3's so i could get a few doubles out, but Ts were the only cards to be found.

i don't question plays based on results, i know the math pretty well, but in certain "fuzzy" situations i know that there has to be an index, and i only worried that my lack of knowledge on the subject would hurt me, not the end result. i've been contemplating building up 10 or 20 more index plays for KO (i have about 20 down now), using rounded indicies, maybe at +6 or +8, though i have to find a list of them somewhere, preferably from a hi/lo source and adjust accordingly.