Q. How do you decide whom to watch from the eye in the sky?
A. A phone call from the pit. Usually a pit boss will call up and ask us to watch someone. Or if a player is a continuous winner over several trips he will be observed.
Q. How much of a win, or how many hours of winning, will trigger an investigation of play in a Las Vegas casino?
A. In our casino as soon as someone is winning $5,000 we are notified.
Q. For casinos that subscribe to Griffin or Biometrica, is the service used extensively, say, on a daily basis?
A. Yes. As soon as we get a call from the pit about a patron, the first thing we do is see if the person is in Griffin or Biometrica. If he is, it makes our jobs easier.
Q. Are players ever entered (into Biometrica) solely because of association with known card counters?
A. Absolutely. Guilt by association, I guess.
Q. If a known pro counter is discovered in a Strip casino, will other Strip casinos be immediately notified?
A. Yes.
Q. If a player is winning inordinately, yet no explanation other than luck can be found, i.e., no counting, no tracking, no hole-card play, no devices, how long will the player be allowed to keep on winning? Is there some number of hours? Any dollar amount? Do all casinos have a pain-tolerance limit?
A. If the player is given a clean bill then we will keep letting him play, but with deterring methods — cutting shoes in half, changing dealers, and so on.
CASINO SURVEILLANCE DIRECTOR TALKS
By Arnold Snyder
(From Blackjack Forum Vol. XXI #4, Winter 2001/02)
© 2002 Blackjack Forum Online
[I asked a casino surveillance director if he would do an interview for Blackjack Forum. I told him he could be anonymous. No name. No pictures. Any question I asked about surveillance that he didn’t want to answer, all he had to do was say so. We’d skip to the next one. I just asked that he give me whatever honest information on casino surveillance he could give for card counters and other professional gamblers.
What follows is a transcript, almost verbatim, of the interview. He answered every question I asked. The only portions I removed were sections where he had second thoughts after he had responded. He asked me not to print these few remarks, not because of the sensitivity of the information provided, but because he felt his responses might reveal his identity to some other casino surveillance people who knew him.]
Q. How long have you been working in casino surveillance?
A. I’ve worked in surveillance for about fifteen years. I’ve worked in nine casinos of which three are on the Las Vegas Strip, where I am currently working.
Q. Have you worked in any other casino industry jobs?
A. I broke in as a dealer in the early 70s and dealt for four… five years. Then I was promoted to the floor and stayed there for four years. Around 1981, I became a pit boss, which I quit after three years because of the politics. Later on, in 1986, I took a position in surveillance and never left. I like it.
Q. Have you ever been a serious player, such as a card counter or other type of gambling pro?
A. No. I never was a serious player but I have dear friends who are and when I do play I will only play with an advantage.
Q. Can you explain that?
A. I’d rather not.
Q. In a major Strip casino, how many surveillance personnel are on staff, that would be on duty on a busy Saturday night, as opposed to a slow weekday morning?
A. At my casino, on an average, there are anywhere up to five people on duty in the surveillance room, and on a slow night there will only be three, maybe four with the supervisor.
Q. How do you decide whom to watch from the eye in the sky?
A. A phone call from the pit. Usually a pit boss will call up and ask us to watch someone. Or if a player is a continuous winner over several trips he will be observed.
Q. How prevalent is computer software in analyzing blackjack players’ skill levels?
A. It’s used different amounts by different casinos. I am not a big fan of blackjack analysis software because camouflage plays could throw it off if you only look at a short session of play. I don’t know of any surveillance monitor operators who care for it, and some don’t even take it seriously.
Q. Is this type of software ever used by casinos to evaluate play for comp purposes?
A. No. Comps are based strictly on the game played, average wager, and the amount of time played. I think it’s outrageous that many casino pit personnel are ignorant of how to evaluate a player’s value, or potential value. Say a new patron walks into a casino and plays roulette, 5.26% house advantage, for several hundred dollars a spin for five to six spins and then asks for a comp to the buffet. A floor supervisor then informs the player that he does not have enough play time. Where’s the logic?
Q. Is this surveillance software ever used "live," in casinos, on blackjack games in progress, or is it only used later, on videos of play?
A. I don’t know anyone who can use it fast enough for live play, so usually it is done later with video playback.
Q. In detecting card counters, is the blackjack software faster and/or more accurate than human surveillance personnel trained to recognize card-counting strategies?
A. I personally feel nothing can take the place of a trained individual.
Q. If a player is winning big, will he automatically be evaluated?
A. No. But if bet spreads raise an eyebrow in the pit, then we will be notified and we might watch him. We will definitely bring the individual up on a monitor but that will not be our first priority if bet spreads and good basic strategy combined are not also factors.
Q. How much of a win, or how many hours of winning, will trigger an investigation of play in a Las Vegas casino?
A. In our casino as soon as someone is winning $5,000 we are notified.
Q. Will all blackjack players be evaluated for both card-counting and shuffle-tracking skills?
A. No. Shuffle-tracking is simply not understood by many casino employees. Everyone uses the term but couldn’t identify one. It is such a hard area to do well and even a harder area to detect. The fact is, few, if any, players can beat the shuffles.
Q. In a typical month in a major casino, how many players will be found to be card counters, shuffle trackers, and actual cheaters?
A. Card counters, we average six to seven a month. Shuffle trackers, about two to three, simply because they are in Biometrica as a tracker, not because we catch them.
Cheaters, about one to four in a month, usually slots, and half are usually employees stealing coins when filling the machines.
Q. For casinos that subscribe to Griffin or Biometrica, is the service used extensively, say, on a daily basis?
A. Yes. As soon as we get a call from the pit about a patron, the first thing we do is see if the person is in Griffin or Biometrica. If he is, it makes our jobs easier.
Q. What percentage of major casinos would you estimate use Biometrica, Griffin, or both?
A. Eighty to ninety percent use Biometrica and I’d say forty percent use Griffin. Some casinos use both. This is based on talking to some of the other surveillance directors and is not a scientific estimate by any means. It seems to me Biometrica has really been taking over.
Q. Who in the casino decides if a player is to be added to Griffin or Biometrica?
A. We take a picture of the individual and state the reasons why we think this person is a counter, and the agencies decide whether or not to put him or her into the system. We can, however, send the individual’s picture directly to other casinos using Bio- metrica and ask them if anyone has information on the person.
Q. How well does Biometrica work, and what is the usage procedure?
A. Biometrica does work well in my opinion but, let’s face it, it is only as good as the people who use it. It is easier to use Biometrica because if we take a picture of a someone who is in the system the computer will find out who the person is because of the facial recognition device.
Q. Are players ever entered solely because of association with known card counters?
A. Absolutely. Guilt by association, I guess.
Q. If a player is in Griffin or Biometrica as a counter, is it assumed that the entry is correct, or will his play be watched?
A. If he’s in the book, he’s history.
Q. How do SINs (Surveillance Information Networks) work?
A. As soon as a person is a suspected undesirable a picture is taken and sent to all the other joints warning or asking about them.
Q. If a known pro counter is discovered in a Strip casino, will other Strip casinos be immediately notified?
A. Yes.
Q. If a player is winning inordinately, yet no explanation other than luck can be found, i.e., no counting, no tracking, no hole-card play, no devices, how long will the player be allowed to keep on winning? Is there some number of hours? Any dollar amount? Do all casinos have a pain-tolerance limit?
A. If the player is given a clean bill then we will keep letting him play, but with deterring methods — cutting shoes in half, changing dealers, and so on.
Q. If such a player is removed simply for inordinate wins, though nothing but luck presents an explanation, would such a player be a candidate for entry in Griffin or Biometrica?
A. No, because you have to explain to them why. But the individual will be in the house computer.
Q. Are players ever entered in Griffin or Biometrica simply because casino personnel dislike them?
A. No.
Q. How competent would you say the average surveillance person is at detecting card counters, shuffle trackers, and hole-card players?
A. Card counters: An amateur counter will be caught immediately. A professional, with no outrageous spreads, camouflage at the right times, etcetera, will have some longevity. Shuffle trackers: not much chance of getting caught. Hole-card players: not much chance of getting caught — providing greed is not a factor. Really bizarre plays can give them away.
Q. What advice can you give BJF readers who want to avoid detection as card counters?
A. Try not to bring too much attention to yourself, especially with bet spreads. If you are getting heat try some camouflage plays. Also watch the floor supervisor, because if he goes to the phone he is not calling Miss Cleo. Also, if you are getting heat, leave before the next shift starts. That way no information will be transferred about you. If you are winning, try to pocket some of the chips without anyone seeing you. If you are wearing a baseball cap and never look up, that’s a big tell. Surveillance will wait until you go to the cage to get a nice Polaroid. If this worries you, then do not cash out — just leave with the chips. To write more of these could take an article in itself.
I think these were the best!
