Team Investing Question

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IloveBjs

Member
I have started a blackjack team and have found an investor who is willing to back me. We live on opposite coasts, and since I dont actually know him personally, he wants us to find a way we can both have access to the money so he can pretty much watch to make sure Im not just stealing his money.

Any ideas?
 
bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
Some more detail

First, we need to know how many are on your team? How much BR are we talking about. How is the split arranged? Who is one which coast? Do you and the investor know all the other members?
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
The simplest way to do it would be to have a checking account that he can access online, but that may attract unwanted attention from the IRS. Why not just use quickbooks software or something and send him detailed reports every week?
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Have him open a joint account at a bank that is convenient for both of you. You could also use online accounts like PayPal or Neteller but they are much less liquid and often charge a fee for transfers.

Is your backer familiar with blackjack? Have you clearly outlined what sort of variance and risk he can expect on his investment? If not, that should be the very next thing you do. You don’t want to hit a losing streak for a few months and have him think that you’re stealing from him. And if he does, do you have procedures in place for him (or you) withdrawing prematurely? How is the remainder of the bankroll split? Are there any penalties? What sort of information have you given him in terms of playing procedures? How often are the payouts? How are the profits split? Are any team expenses covered? How much of the profits are reinvested? How often are the bet spreads resized?

-Sonny-
 
I

IloveBjs

Member
Team members as of right now = 2
Bankroll = $10k min, 20k max: still undecided
Investor to player payout ratio = 70%/30%
Players= East Coast Investor=West Coast
None of the Players know the Investor

What is Quickbooks software? Sounds interesting
 
C

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
Ahhhh!

If you live on opposite coasts how will he know how much you win or lose? How will he know how good of blackjack player that you are. How does he know that you aren't a losing blackjack player like most people who play blackjack are. How can you prove that you are winning player in a casino enviroment. There are players who might be winning players on a computer simulation but lose focus in real casino. Transfer of money should be relatively easy now a days though just set up bank accounts and wire money back and fourth.
 
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IloveBjs

Member
He is not very familiar with Blackjack, and I have covered risk with him but will go over variance more in depth for sure.

I am new to the team aspect, so have not yet gone into withdrawls and things of that nature, but he is not going to be taking out any of his investment for at least a year.

I also need to look into re-investment and re-sizing BR bets.

Basically, he said take this money and make the most money you can and in a years time we will talk further.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
It sounds like you’re pretty far away from starting this team. In the meantime you should write up a full team handbook for the players that clearly details every aspect of their playing style and all other procedures (training, testing, re-testing, money management, casino comportment, dispute resolution, etc.). You’ll also want to write up a full investment summary for your backer that includes, at the very least, information about ROI, RoR, expected SD, probabilities of being ahead and N0. That way there will be no misunderstandings when it comes to his money. If your strategy is strong then those numbers should make him feel better about his investment too.

-Sonny-
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
If he doesn't know you, and is worried about you stealing his money, why is he interested in investing?

In terms of books, I'm trying to think of what has good info on team management... Blackbelt in Blackjack has some, Blackjack Attack has a section, and Blackjack Blueprint has a section, that I've read. And Ken Uston's books are chock full of anecdotes
 
I

IloveBjs

Member
To be honest, I have no idea why he is investing in us. I wouldnt invest in someone I don't know, but hey Im not gunna turn away a good investment opportunity when I can get it.

He has alot of money so it seems like 10 or 20k is kind of insignificant to him so he seems very open to this project.
 
K

Knox

Well-Known Member
I have a friend who wants to "invest" as well. My concern is that it will end up with me doing all the work and taking the risk. He trusts me but I don't see him being in a position or patient enough to lose money. I think I will need to stay on my own for now. Once I work up to 10-k or so winnings I may revisit the idea.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
If you are any good playing
BJ,why would you need his 10K?You are giving away 70% of your winnings for what reason exactly?
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
Seriously, am I really the only one that thinks this makes about as little sense as anything I've read?
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
A bankroll is a bankroll, and if you don't have one, then 30% of 10k is better than 100% of 0.

Oh, and quickbooks is a relatively easy to use accounting program. You have to have a general understanding of accounting to use it (what are accounts receivable, invoices, accounts payable, etc.), but it's pretty dummy proof. If you don't use a software program, at least keep a detailed ledger of wins, losses, who was playing, how many hours were played, what were expenses (if those were included) etc.
 
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S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
A bankroll is a bankroll, and if you don't have one, then 30% of 10k is better than 100% of 0.

Oh, and quickbooks is a relatively easy to use accounting program. You have to have a general understanding of accounting to use it (what are accounts receivable, invoices, accounts payable, etc.), but it's pretty dummy proof. If you don't use a software program, at least keep a detailed ledger of wins, losses, who was playing, how many hours were played, what were expenses (if those were included) etc.
Click to expand...
And if your team can't ante up a 10K BR,it shouldn't be playing.
 
B

Bojack1

Well-Known Member
IloveBjs said:
Team members as of right now = 2
Bankroll = $10k min, 20k max: still undecided
Investor to player payout ratio = 70%/30%
Players= East Coast Investor=West Coast
None of the Players know the Investor

What is Quickbooks software? Sounds interesting
Click to expand...
I must say your plan here seems destined to fail. Its either a joke or just real naive thinking on both parties. First problem being I know of no investor willing to put up a high risk investment with small return potential, especially with strangers, and on something they know nothing about. Sounds fishy. Also giving the investor anything more than equal share is foolish. It gives those who don't know a false sense of empowerment and will lead to disputes on team direction and leadership. Plus with such a small investment as a bankroll there will be very little pay for the players, thus leading to very little motivation to play. Lets face it nobody likes to work for free, and make no mistake about it, it is no longer playing for fun when you have an outside investor that you don't know personally looking for his money, its work. There also needs to be some pretty meticulous record keeping if things are to run on the up and up. It doesn't sound if you're up to it or if you even want to.

My advice if you care to listen is this, if this is a real opportunity and not just a message board joke, pass on it. Play your own game financed strictly with you and your partners money. If you don't have enough money to play, practice playing until you do. Its hard enough to keep a team together without outside investors, let alone with an investor with no understanding of his investment. After you learn more about the game, and that means the money management aspect of potential investors, than maybe you could look into that avenue of playing. But before you even talk to an investor you should already have an agreement statute in place that covers all aspects of players and investors rights and expectations. That way all potential investors know right away what the deal is and if it will work for them, and it eliminates those who are just blowing smoke and wasting your time. Good luck with it.
 
I

IloveBjs

Member
This is not a joke.

I'm going to be honest, my investor is not the smartest guy I've ever met. (except Ive never met him) He is willing to just send me 10k and have me play with it. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it really is true.

My thinking about the 10k bankroll is that I could play it, and if I won, then I could use him to finance future teams for much more of a BR.
 
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