team play

[mjbballar23]

i have a 4 man team and a third party bankroll. we just started playing with this bankroll and we are having trouble decided what is the best way to distribute profits if we are also giving a bankroll cut. any suggestions as to how often we should be distributing profits and such would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RJT]

Paying team members really should be based on what each player is doing. If you are just using a joint bankroll then everyone should be paid equally in most cases - there are some unusual circumstances where perhaps one player is using a far more powerful count that you might want to consider paying slightly more to that player etc etc.
If however you have different players performing different functions, then the players should be paid based on their skill level and risk assessment.
As to when you should divey up the winnings, personally i would go with a win target to decide this. Don't set this so high as to be only splitting once a year or anything like that. Mayhaps a target you feel you could achieve once a month is a good level for keeping people motivated, but allowing for swings.

RJT.

 

[mjbballar23]

what likely is it that the team would be down at the end of the month if each team member players for 30 hours per month, so 120 hours total. every player is performing essentially the same tasks, meaning same count, same knowledge, no designated big player....

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Depending on what your investor thinks and what your relationship is with him, you're probably best off giving yourselves an hourly wage and letting the investor eat both the positive and the negative variance, plus a fair portion of your EV. That's what he's there for. Treat yourselves as just smaller investors who eat a smaller portion of the variance. Your investor doesn't get a wage because he's not working.

The portion of your EV that goes to your investor has to be balanced between what is an appropriate profit margin given his risk, and how much EV you could make for yourselves without him. It needs to be a win-win, or it's not worth doing. His profit has to be enough to compete with the 10% per annum investments commonly available on the markets with a 1-2% risk of ruin. So giving him 15% per annum with a 5% RoR isn't going to work. Neither is leaving yourselves with a $10/hr wage.

Being you have such a small team I'd advise you go out playing together or at least in pairs. That gives you at least some assurance that a player is not sitting in the bar to collect his wage when he's supposed to be playing. Money and stress do strange things to people.

 

[Sonny]

what likely is it that the team would be down at the end of the month if each team member players for 30 hours per month, so 120 hours total.

If each player has the same EV and SD (which sounds like the case here) then the probability of being ahead after any number of hours is:

=normsdist(Sqrt(Number Of Hours) * Hourly EV / Hourly SD)

For 120 hours of play that would be:

=10.95 * EV / SD

That is the number of SDs your trip will represent. There is a full description of this formula here:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4891

You can use this information do decide how often to break your bankroll. As RJT said, you don't want to wait too long because players will not be as motivated, especially during a losing streak. At the same time, you don't want to break it up too often because the investors will have to bear the brunt of the loss while any non-invested players will be getting paid too much. There is a good discussion of that here:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=6468

-Sonny-

 

[moo321]

Whatever your investor will accept. If he want 70%, you may have to do that. If he'll accept 50%, that's a lot better. With a large bank, only 20% to players could be totally acceptable, but on a small bank 50 might be hard to swing.

 

[Bojack1]

i have a 4 man team and a third party bankroll. we just started playing with this bankroll and we are having trouble decided what is the best way to distribute profits if we are also giving a bankroll cut. any suggestions as to how often we should be distributing profits and such would be greatly appreciated.

Its kind of dangerous making these decisions after play has already started using an outside investor and having other team members. It can lead to disagreements among the team and especially the investor. You should get a team policy and guidelines firmly in place and agreed upon before play starts. I suggest like others here have, to set money profit goals and break bank proportionately upon reaching it. Before setting a money goal you should simulate or figure what kind of game you will be playing including team strategy, table rules, bankroll, unit size and bet spread. This way you can come up with a fairly realistic goal of what your E.V. should be and approximately how long it should take you and what % chance you have of reaching it. That way you can set up 2 ways of breaking bank. Either when you reach your money target, or when you reach the allotted hours of total play that you figured you would have reached that goal you can break bank. If you have not reached the money goal in the hours you expected but have a profit, distribute what you do have so at least there is some compensation for playing.

As far as profit distribution, that can vary greatly on one's perspective of what they want out of this game. I know of no team that gives investors more than 50% of profits. If you will be replenishing your bankroll with profits, I would make the investors share no more than 25% as the other 75% needs to be divided up between players salary, building bankroll, and team expenses. This is why these details should be worked out before the actual playing starts. There needs to be a full understanding among the investor and team, and between the teamates what to expect. Otherwise anyone involved can back out or worse saying this is not what they had in mind when agreeing to participate in this endeavor. Remember, blackjack is a volatile high risk investment, any who invest in it should be made clear of this. There are no gaurantees, but like any other high risk investment, when it hits it will come with high reward, when its down, well, you know the deal.

There is a lot to organizing a team to run fairly and efficiently, but if you really try to think of it as a business and not just a game, all parties should be satisfied with at least how its handled even if its not immediately profitable. There are a good many start ups that fail or aren't initially successful moneywise, but if you implement a well managed business plan from the beginning, you at least stand a chance and will be more likely to succeed than most.