I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to put together a small team to hammer the local games for a few trips and maybe a Vegas trip or two. I have been pitching it to family and close friends I can trust but no one seems to be interested and if they are they won't put in the study time. Does anyone have any tips on where to find good players or how to convince people who you already know that its worth the study time?
Team Tips?
- Thread starter White Guy
- Start date
Harman
Well-Known Member
How old are you? Make sure you have a sufficient bankroll and can count yourself before you even think about a team. Mostly you're better off playing alone or in pairs, unless you can form a big bankroll.
If you are at college you must surely be able to find some people who are interested...? Don't just tell them about card counting, invite them to a game of it and suggest it then. Tell them about all the money you could make. Use everything you have ever learned in persuasion techniques.. most people are interested by the fact they can beat the system and make money whilst doing it
If you are at college you must surely be able to find some people who are interested...? Don't just tell them about card counting, invite them to a game of it and suggest it then. Tell them about all the money you could make. Use everything you have ever learned in persuasion techniques.. most people are interested by the fact they can beat the system and make money whilst doing it
Sonny
Well-Known Member
I’m afraid I can’t help with the latter part of your question. I ran into the same problems you did. Most civilians just aren’t interested, and the few that are don’t want to put in the work. It takes a certain kind of person to be a successful AP and those people can be hard to find.White Guy said:
As far as finding good players, here’s an old link with some good advice:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2708
-Sonny-
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Thanks
That is what I figured. I guess it does take a different type of person I just assume more people woyld be interested. If someone came to me with such an idea I would be pretty enthusiastic about it. I could probably look outside of friends and family but then I lose the trust factor and things get complicated. The casino within 30 min of my house was almost designed for team play. It makes me sick almost not to be able to take advantage of it.
That is what I figured. I guess it does take a different type of person I just assume more people woyld be interested. If someone came to me with such an idea I would be pretty enthusiastic about it. I could probably look outside of friends and family but then I lose the trust factor and things get complicated. The casino within 30 min of my house was almost designed for team play. It makes me sick almost not to be able to take advantage of it.
cardcounter0
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good beginning to getting half your bankroll ripped off by some degenerates.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Based on some very limited team play experience, I'd say that trust, not skill, is the #1 factor. For that reason, I'd say that if none of the people you trust already are willing, forget looking to strangers.
You could always try a broad search (i.e. spam boards) to be a peon on a large team; you'd probably have to work your way up to any level of trust, but it might be worth it, depending on how much time you want to sink in. The drawback is that you'll probably give your identity to the casinos before you can determine which responses are real and which are fake.
The other option is to try and catch a team in the casinos. This was an idea I had played around with when I spotted a team in Vegas one year. This one guy always showed up with $90-$95 bets whenever the TC hit +3, and I'm pretty sure the other guy at the table was calling him in. I briefly considered earning a few extra bucks by asking them to pay me (hourly) as an extra spotter. The less charitable idea, shaking them down for a lump payment for silence, was also briefly considered but rejected pretty quickly.
You could always try a broad search (i.e. spam boards) to be a peon on a large team; you'd probably have to work your way up to any level of trust, but it might be worth it, depending on how much time you want to sink in. The drawback is that you'll probably give your identity to the casinos before you can determine which responses are real and which are fake.
The other option is to try and catch a team in the casinos. This was an idea I had played around with when I spotted a team in Vegas one year. This one guy always showed up with $90-$95 bets whenever the TC hit +3, and I'm pretty sure the other guy at the table was calling him in. I briefly considered earning a few extra bucks by asking them to pay me (hourly) as an extra spotter. The less charitable idea, shaking them down for a lump payment for silence, was also briefly considered but rejected pretty quickly.
Please tell me this post is tongue in cheek. Aside from the first paragraph, which I agree with, I'd have to say the rest of this advice is really very bad.callipygian said:
Do not spam the boards looking for teamates. I have seen cases where after reading insightful posts over time, people have reached out to others to maybe strike up some type of playing arrangement. Most times it doesn't work out though, as we all know reality can be a bitch.
As far as trying to catch a team in a casino, forget about that. First off, most good teams are not easy to detect, and even if you do find one, they should never acknowledge themselves to a stranger anyway. Secondly, speaking just for my team, if anyone approached one of us in a casino asking to be a spotter, aside from just ignoring them I would probably double over in laughter. Yeah sure, I don't know you, or if you even know what you're doing, but I'll be more than happy to risk thousands of dollars just assuming you do because you say so. And please, trying to blackmail a team, especially a professional team, thats just not a very good idea for your playing career and quite possibly your health, depending on who you try it with.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Perhaps a little more structure in my post would help clarify what I mean.Bojack1 said:
Summary:
Based on some very limited team play experience, I'd say that trust, not skill, is the #1 factor. For that reason, I'd say that if none of the people you trust already are willing, forget looking to strangers.
However, if you insist on finding strangers to play with, here are two suggestions:
- You could always try a broad search (i.e. spam boards) to be a peon on a large team; you'd probably have to work your way up to any level of trust, but it might be worth it, depending on how much time you want to sink in. The drawback is that you'll probably give your identity to the casinos before you can determine which responses are real and which are fake.
- The other option is to try and catch a team in the casinos. This was an idea I had played around with when I spotted a team in Vegas one year. This one guy always showed up with $90-$95 bets whenever the TC hit +3, and I'm pretty sure the other guy at the table was calling him in. I briefly considered earning a few extra bucks by asking them to pay me (hourly) as an extra spotter. The less charitable idea, shaking them down for a lump payment for silence, was also briefly considered but rejected pretty quickly.
Conclusion:
Based on some very limited team play experience, I'd say that trust, not skill, is the #1 factor. For that reason, I'd say that if none of the people you trust already are willing, forget looking to strangers.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
SIR YES SIR :whip:Bojack1 said:
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Well let's put it this way- team play is sort of like group sex. The slope of the increased advantage starts decreasing rapidly after the first partner, and depending on the partner you might be better off going alone.callipygian said:
And the larger the group, the greater the chance is someone is going to show up with a case of VD and cause harm to everyone else. Likewise all you need is one crook, compulsive gambler, drug addict, or dangerous fool on a team to eliminate your profits and possibly all or most of your assets too. These types are attracted to casinos and gaming and you can expect to meet them if you go public just like you might expect to meet someone with disease on Craigslist, or at the very least someone without a lot of other options.
I completely agree. That is like poetry. The VD reference in the orgy really puts it clear... :laugh: I don't think I ever could give someone I haven't known for at least a few years any amount of my money to play with that is for sure. I don't hang around degenerate gambling or drug doing types. The biggest problem with people I know is motivation to even try to study. I usually get them to learn what the Hi- Lo count is and try it for a week or so than they just slack so I give up on them. A few of my family members even have the idea that a crazy casino manager is going to take them in the back room Dinero style if they get suspected... Not to mention the number of people who think counting is illegal for some reason.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Perhaps a little of both; or perhaps neither since I ended up just chuckling at their efforts and moving on.InPlay said:
It's pretty funny that you guys have automatically assumed these are some pretty high-rolling mafia-connected gun-toting bodyguard-protected badasses.InPlay said:
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moo321 said:
Remember I mention about the guy who flipped a chip to a person so he could split a pair. Well he won both hands and walked away with the guys money. Next time I seen the guy who walked away with the money his arm was in a cast and his faced looked like someone used it for a punching bag. I kind of doubt he was in a car accident.
Hey, if you feel like it, just for the fun of it and sake of discussion, assuming you could find players you trusted completely, what would be the next step in your team plan? How much investment. How would you play what game? When would you distribute winnings? How much money would the team expect to make? Etc.White Guy said:
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Why would you assume that the people I'm talking about would do the same?InPlay said:
I said they were betting less than $100 as their "big" bet - this was not a heavily bankrolled team, probably two or three college seniors from an engineering school pooling together a few hundred bucks each. They didn't even have the balls to bet out an even $100 and risk the dealer yelling out "black action" - the guy seriously counted out $95 (three greens, four reds) every time he Wonged in.
That was not a well-greased, get-rich-or-die-trying operation.
And the picture of the pimply-faced teen from The Simpsons wasn't an exaggeration, either. Put a baseball cap on him and that was the spotter; the BP was a chunky, scruffy version of Wesley Crusher. I'd have given 1000:1 odds against them jumping me in an alleyway and 2:1 odds against one of them wetting their pants if I told them I was from casino security and wanted to talk to them.
Ultimately, that's why I just laughed them off and went elsewhere - I didn't want to prey on a few newbies or horn in on their fun. My first team was like that too - a bunch of science/engineering nerd friends from college, spending 100+ man-hours programming computer simulations in preparation for 10-20 hours of AP, retrospectively laughable BP bets, crowding around our first yellow chip because we had never seen one before, all 5 of us fleeing from a casino because *gasp* one member got caught ratholing a black chip ... :laugh:
callipygian said:
I can see you are young and foolish. I seen people get killed for less then a $100. Pick up the newspaper and you will see it. Don't ever under estimate anyone by the way they look. Very stupid. I can see you are still wet behind the ears. Why would you want to prey on people? If you ever in Detroit drop me a line and I will show you a few things.