Teamwork

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distractTHEdealer

Member
I've been visiting this forum almost every night for the past month or so. I learned how to count from this website, and can now run down a deck in 23 seconds almost every single time. Thank you blackjackforum! I finally decided to register so I could get in on all these cRAzY educational conversations.

The research I have done on teams has leaned towards unfavorable. Animocity, dependability, things like that. I was just wondering how the forum felt about this?

I have been twice so far to put myself to the test. The first time went well I won, I went again despite my better judgement and lack of bankroll, I lost. I decided to save some money this time and do it the right way. I like talking to the dealers, I got 2 sent to break for not focusing. Probably not the best way to avoid attention but it makes me feel good.

As a second thought, if they kick me out, can they take my chips away? No right?
 
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Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
I love playing with teams. The key is to play with people you know personally that you can trust. I have been on 3 team trips so far where we all play on a joint BR and haven't made much money each time but that will change and it is always nice to have people to hang with between playing.

And you're right - Once the chips pass the felt to you they are legally yours and the casino cannot take them back. (Unless you actually cheated)
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
BJgenius007 said:
In some states like Indiana, counting is considered cheating.
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Even in the worst of states, namely, Nevada, card counting is not considered cheating (legally speaking). I'd take that one to the SC.
 
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distractTHEdealer

Member
Team team team

That was only part 2 of the question. And an afterthought At that. I want to hear about some professional teams. Being a recreational AP is all gravy don't get me wrong, but I didn't spend all this time studying to be a better gambler. I am a greedy little SOB. So if anyone can offer some insight on how one could go about setting up a team. And what about playing a second hand when the count is nice and high, As opposed to spreading quite as much, would this draw more or less attention?
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
distractTHEdealer said:
That was only part 2 of the question. And an afterthought At that. I want to hear about some professional teams. Being a recreational AP is all gravy don't get me wrong, but I didn't spend all this time studying to be a better gambler. I am a greedy little SOB. So if anyone can offer some insight on how one could go about setting up a team. And what about playing a second hand when the count is nice and high, As opposed to spreading quite as much, would this draw more or less attention?
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Counting behavior is obvious to any onlooking counter. If you are playing in a store where they are on guard for counters at the particular rate you play (be it $10 or $1,000), your best defense is the quick hit and run. If you are in a store that has little heat, you can play a wonging out game, and a more or less break even game, waiting for a good run of cards. When that comes, you should generally hit and run. If you're not a big gambler, no one's going to bother reviewing your play and relatively miniscule win. If you hang around, however, your sudden increase in betting from 1 unit to 10 or 12 units or more may cause ears to go up. Your play may be under review from that point on, depending on the attentiveness of the pit crew. If you feel you have attracted some greater degree of attention, and you elect to stay anyway, you had better be adept at cover play. Always remember that card counting is obvious to other counters.

PS--If you switch to two hands, if it occurs in lockstep with the count, then you are still exhibiting counter behavior. On the other hand, you can bet less on each hand, but still every counter knows that. If you're not being watched, then two hands is fine, and the lower bet will not raise as much attention. You might want to switch to two hand in a neutral count, or wait until the count is way high (oppositional betting), as a form of cover.
 
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W

WRX

Well-Known Member
distractTHEdealer said:
The research I have done on teams has leaned towards unfavorable. Animocity, dependability, things like that. I was just wondering how the forum felt about this?
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Teams allow you to do great things, but carry a lot of peril. Stick to team mates that you know well, in whose skills and integrity you have the greatest confidence, and with whom you've formed a close bond. Prospective new team members should be given a trial run or two on a playing trip before being admitted as full members. This can save you a lot of grief if things don't work out. It's hard to unwind a partnership after you've jumped into it.

Work out in advance how possible major problems such as theft of a bankroll or legal expenses will be handled. I'm sure that divergent expectations over responsibility for such matters has been the downfall of more than one team.

You need far more experience in casinos before you form any kind of a long term team relationship. Get some play under your belt. Maybe find one friend to make playing trips with you. Slowly get to know others through online contacts, leading to in person meetings if you both like. Build your network. If you develop skills and other resources that you can bring to the table, eventually you and others will find it mutually beneficial to form a team.
 
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distractTHEdealer

Member
if you had to pick

:grin:To any other COUNTer indeed. But to those not counting? Is a second hand a better play or is spreading key? As far as getting caught, I bring my own bouncers, haha.

I guess what I'm asking is does anyone here start playing 2nd hands when the count gets up? 2 loaded hands is better than one right?

Has anyone really been beaten up in the past few years or is that fiction? I wasn't kidding about my bouncer. He comes just in case..
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
distractTHEdealer said:
:grin:To any other COUNTer indeed. But to those not counting? Is a second hand a better play or is spreading key? As far as getting caught, I bring my own bouncers, haha.

I guess what I'm asking is does anyone here start playing 2nd hands when the count gets up? 2 loaded hands is better than one right?

Has anyone really been beaten up in the past few years or is that fiction? I wasn't kidding about my bouncer. He comes just in case..
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I always try to get a second hand, sometimes even third, when the count gets up. Why? Because the "good" cards will likely be coming out and I want to have more chances compared to the dealer and others of getting them. If aces are coming, I want two or three times the chance of getting those aces. But I don't bet full spread on each hand. Instead, I play 75% on each hand. So I am getting more money on the table, but I am not raising my RoR appreciably.

Beaten up by the house or by muggers? I assume you mean being back-roomed and beaten by the casino for card counting. I doubt if any major casino does that. I hope the hell not. What happens in smaller places and Indian casinos, I don't know. I guess it still happens occasionally even today. I don't know of anyone to whom it has happened over the past few years. Detained, yes, but beaten, no. I'll be interested in hearing from those who are more informed than me.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
I think the most important aspect of team play is that your risk of losing is drastically reduced. Take a week-long trip to Vegas, play 50 hours, and you could easily be stuck. Get a couple buddies, and play 150 or 200 hours, and it's quite difficult for them to stick all of you collectively.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
moo321 said:
I think the most important aspect of team play is that your risk of losing is drastically reduced. Take a week-long trip to Vegas, play 50 hours, and you could easily be stuck. Get a couple buddies, and play 150 or 200 hours, and it's quite difficult for them to stick all of you collectively.
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This is true, but there is still a chance that all will lose. You can't treat it as a sure thing. It's what I learned when I first started counting. I won my first seven trips. Wow, I thought--this is the life! My 8th trip was a $5,000 loss, which quickly reduced my overall winnings to very small. So maybe with team play you can actually go 20 or 30 times without a major loss. Just don't get cocky and believe it can't happen. BTW, that 1 in 30 major loss can happen the first time out. Not a doomsayer, just a realist. I, too, believe in team play.

Also, I wonder, too, if it happens early on whether suspicion and distrust will cause the team to come apart at the seams.
 
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