Telling Apart 6 and 8 Deck Shoes

Murrow

Member
I'm sure this has been covered before, but several site searches yielded poor results..

Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a 6 deck shoe from an 8 deck shoe? Is it just one of those things you learn over time, or are there tell-tale signs at any given table?
 

21Menace

Well-Known Member
After playing a while you'll easily be able to tell just by looking at the discard tray. 8 deck discard trays are higher.

You can always ask the dealer for now. Don't think there's anything wrong with that.
 

Meistro

Well-Known Member
You can ask the dealer; I think this is a fairly common question, although I probably would only do it if the pit boss was out of ear shot. Not a big deal if they hear you asking though. But if you can't tell the difference between 8 and 6 decks stacked up, how are you going to estimate how many decks are left to calculate ur true count?

Also in some of the games I play in, the discard tray, when completely full, is exactly 8 decks.
 

Murrow

Member
I've only learned KO so far, so determining true count hasn't been an issue.

Thanks for the advice. I had assumed that asking the number of decks may put up a flag in the dealer's mind. It's good to know it's a safe question.
 

21Menace

Well-Known Member
You could ask if it's 6 or 8 and then ask "is basic strategy any different for 8 decks?" That way it just looks like your worried about playing bs correctly.
 

Finn Dog

Well-Known Member
Murrow said:
...are there tell-tale signs at any given table?
Yes, 6 decks have 2 less decks than 8. :grin:

Seriously Murrow, you have to calibrate your eye so you're dead on (you'll also need this skill if you ever want to true count convert KO--which I recommend if you use KO). Go to the gift shop and buy a couple dozen decks. Stack them in piles and practice till you've got it down. It'll be obvious before long.

Best regards,

FD
 
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21Menace

Well-Known Member
Are different casinos card thicknesses that much different? I've been using bicycle cards from cvs but want to get some from a casino. Does it matter which casino or are they all the same?
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
21Menace said:
Are different casinos card thicknesses that much different? I've been using bicycle cards from cvs but want to get some from a casino. Does it matter which casino or are they all the same?
The different brands of cards casinos use can be much different.
 

21Menace

Well-Known Member
Enought of a difference to screw up the true count conversion? So what do you do about it? Doesn't seem practical to relearn deck estimation for each new casino visited.
 

Krak3d

Well-Known Member
You can ask the dealer, also put it the if BS is different for 8 decks, just for good measure. They won't suspect a thing, there's thousands of people coming in everyday, they won't go into minor details like this.
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
21Menace said:
Enought of a difference to screw up the true count conversion? So what do you do about it? Doesn't seem practical to relearn deck estimation for each new casino visited.
I've only seen 4 brands of cards used in all of my casino play. There might be more out there, but these are the major ones. The bee/aristocrat seems to be by far the most common.

Bee/Aristocrat
Gemaco
Cartamundi
Paulson

See, you only need to know four. It shouldn't be enough of a difference to severely impair your deck estimation, except perhaps double deck.
 

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
I agree with the "just "ask the dealer" advice. They hear it all the time.

That said, after a few strolls thru the casino it's pretty easy to judge from the size of the discard tray. You can also approximate it by looking at a ruler. A deck of cards will be a little bit more than 1/2 inch thick. So if you see a discard tray with about a 4 inch opening (3+ inches for cards plus some space at the top) you've got a 6 deck game. If it's bigger than that, you've got an 8 deck game.

An even cruder method. Make a fist. If you can imagine just your fist fitting in the opening of the discard tray, it's probably 6 deck. If it looks more like your fist with your thumb extended might fit, it's probably 8 deck. Of course, your mileage will vary with this "hands down" method. :)
 

Renzey

Well-Known Member
Murrow said:
Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a 6 deck shoe from an 8 deck shoe? Is it just one of those things you learn over time, or are there tell-tale signs at any given table?
To be sure about it, you simply need to be able to visually tell a 6 deck stack from an 8.

Yes, you can ask the dealer, but I've seen the dealer give the wrong answer.
Yes, you can look at the discard tray, but occasionally a 6 deck game will be dealt with an 8 deck discard tray.
Yes, card thicknesses do vary depending upon the manufacturer. But a 2 deck difference will always be obvious to an educated eye.
6 decks will just about always measure between 3.5 inches and 3.75 inches.
8 decks will just about always measure between 4.6 inches and 5.0 inches.
The thin ones are Gemaco and Paulson. The thick ones are Bee and Aristocrat. It's good to look for the Ace of Spades to come out the first time you sit down if you don't recognize the card back.

Can card thickness affect true count conversion? Here's about a worst case scenario. You're near the shuffle in an 8 deck game and the Hi/Lo RC is +5.
With an 8 unit bet up, you've got blackjack against an Ace. Being used to skinny cards, you estimate that 6.5 decks are in the tray. That converts to a +3.3 true -- and you take Even Money. In reality however, you were playing with Aristocrats and there are only 6.0 decks in the tray, making the actual TC +2.5. At all shallower penetration depths, it'll matter considerably less.
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
fooled

I got fooled once into the six deck game thinking it was eight deck. They were using a eight deck discard rack and I didn't notice the mark they put on the rack for six. It goofed me up since I didn't put two and two together til the shuffle. I had entered the game after it just started so it did come as surprise to find out later.
 
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