the business of blackjack

[bluewhale]

maybe its just me, but doesn't it seem like a complete waste of time for these guys with rolls under 5k to even be playing blackjack? its one thing to be betting small in order to gain some live casino experience, but a whole other thing to be spreading to a max of $50 to earn $5/hr or some garbage.

it just seems to me that a lot of the ppl on here would be better off getting a second job. i mean everyone here argues about the smallest thing in order to cash in on that extra 2% juice, but i think a lot of ppl are all missing the big picture which is that small rolling BJ is a big waste of time. you could easily get a part time job that pays 2x-3x what you're making at BJ, with 0 variance. Thats the +EV move.

i guess its just a hobby though like others watch tv or something. to me though this is business, and the second i realize that its not worth my time, i'll be outta here. so i'll say this, if you're playing BJ primarily to make money, and you've got less than 10k to burn, keep looking, cause blackjacks not it.

 

[Canceler]

i guess its just a hobby...

Exactly.

 

[Kasi]

maybe its just me, but doesn't it seem like a complete waste of time for these guys with rolls under 5k to even be playing blackjack?

Maybe just me, but not at all.

Lot a ways to bet and play a roll with the same risk. They don't all come out to $5/hr.

Even crazy Bob could do better than that with his $2k roll if he wasn't scared half to death of losing 10 cents and had a clue what to do.

But he is, and he doesn't, so he won't.

 

[moo321]

Yeah, we're not all doing a play-all 1-10 spread on poorly dealt 8 deck games. Although I agree with you that a lot of people should just get a part time job or learn to play poker.

 

[toastblows]

Unless they are learning... yes its a waste of time if you are making less than a minimum wage job + expenses etc.

If you want to make a fairly decent return on your roll, get into mutual funds and work a second job. Youll grow a roll faster than gambling up to say a 5K level.

Although these last couple weeks my roll is taking a beating in stocks worse than any session....and i dont get free drinks to lose either :laugh:

 

[glovesetc]

congrats on superior posts

It is about time somebody figured this out .! If you are making less then $50.00 an hour plaing you need to seriously think about a second and third job .Somebody said well the comps are nice . Not at a $5,000.00 even $25,000.00 BR are they that good . Anybody in this forum - I think - can afford a $200.00 dinner for two with no downside risk at a tremendous restaurant anyways . If you have no life , are bored out of your mind , and have nothing better to do then I guess it might be a good time waster for sure . I could not agree with all the above posts more though . Buy rare coins or invest in stocks for the long term . When BJ becomes an obsession or a driving force in your life you need to call 1-800 GAMBLER immediatelly !! :grin: :cool2:

 

[InPlay]

maybe its just me, but doesn't it seem like a complete waste of time for these guys with rolls under 5k to even be playing blackjack? its one thing to be betting small in order to gain some live casino experience, but a whole other thing to be spreading to a max of $50 to earn $5/hr or some garbage.

it just seems to me that a lot of the ppl on here would be better off getting a second job. i mean everyone here argues about the smallest thing in order to cash in on that extra 2% juice, but i think a lot of ppl are all missing the big picture which is that small rolling BJ is a big waste of time. you could easily get a part time job that pays 2x-3x what you're making at BJ, with 0 variance. Thats the +EV move.

i guess its just a hobby though like others watch tv or something. to me though this is business, and the second i realize that its not worth my time, i'll be outta here. so i'll say this, if you're playing BJ primarily to make money, and you've got less than 10k to burn, keep looking, cause blackjacks not it.

I know it took me 5 years to pound out +$60,000 and thats at a $50 min table. I probally would have been better off getting a second job. I think back at some of the hours I put it 24 to 30 hours a week/maybe 40 weeks of the year =1200 hours a year X 5 = 6,000 hours of playing BJ. Thats an average of about $10.00 an hour a little better then a fruit pickers wage. But I had a lot of fun. It's a very tough game for people with a small bankroll. The ups and downs alone is enough to knock you out of the game. The other day was one of those days. Eight hour day and a minus $2,400. Great cards all the right moves but when the dealer keeps making 21 from hands of 14, 15, 16, not much you can do. Just chalk it up as a bad day at the office.

 

[glovesetc]

another intelligent post

that I totally agree with . Save your money for maybe 2-3 yars so you have the ammo to go into a battle . At $10.00 an hour you are right - grape pickers make more and so did 100 % of my employees before I recently sold my companies to a conglomerate . I know for sure if I spent 40 hours in a casino a week I had better be making at least $4,000.00 minimum. I go once a week play for maybe 3-8 hours when my health permits and that is it- win/lose/draw- with no exceptions . My buyin is 10 K as is most of the other guys at the table and we take up all the spots as well . Been going with the same group for like 15 years and we have went all over the world to play and we enjoy great dinners , suites, and all the perks . It should be fun and relaxing and if you win you win and if you lose you lose - no big deal . Sure we all hate to lose but that is part of the game as well as winning and break even sessions . If you think you are gonna make a great living at BJ you definitely need a career counsellor if you are starting with a small BR . I have seen many people who were better players then I ever will be lose their BK and quit . As the above post states you will run into days where the dealer makes every single hand 14/15/15/13/ and 12 that he hits . Just not your day - period . :grin: :cool2:

 

[shadroch]

Could not disagree more.I'm not going to argue about it,but I think this thread and the theory behind it is hooey.
Can I afford a $200 dinner? Yes.
Can I afford to pay for thirty nights at top hotels( Wynn,Paris,Rio,Harrahs Laughlin,Taj,Showboat,El Cotez,Golden Nugget ,Ballys,Binions,Plaza,LVC,ect,ect) and the meals that accompany such overnite stays,and a dozen or so shows each year? Not very easily.
But thats what playing low roller BJ has gotten me each of the last several years.And a profit that exceeds $5 an hour.

 

[Sonny]

If you are making less then $50.00 an hour playing you need to seriously think about a second and third job…When BJ becomes an obsession or a driving force in your life you need to call 1-800 GAMBLER immediatelly !! :grin: :cool2:

So if my child becomes obsessed with playing baseball and makes that a driving force in his life, should I discourage him from playing because he will only be playing in the children’s league? He isn’t going to be a child forever. He’ll eventually grow up.

I played as a red-chipper for over 2 years and it was the best experience I could have possibly had. I was forced to play as aggressively as possible. I had no choice but to find every possible way of getting an advantage and exploiting it to the fullest. I had to do a lot of studying and learn everything I could about the game (and other games!). It was crucial for me to understand the short-term variance and how to get to the long run as soon as possible with as little risk as possible. It was incredibly important for me to understand optimal betting techniques and how to wring out an extra $1/hour. Now that I’m “grown up” that extra $1/hour translates into an extra $10-$20/hour.

If I had started with a big bankroll I would never have developed the skill and discipline that I have now. I could just keep a simple count and use a mediocre bet spread to earn $50/hour with very little effort. I would be just another second-rate card counter who has little chance of realizing a long-term profit.

Sure, most people on this website are just recreational players who play for fun and entertainment. That’s fine. If they can learn a few ways to limit their losses and increase their comps they’ll be happy. But some players here are pretty serious about the game. Just because they’re playing for nickels doesn’t mean they will never graduate. And even if they don't, some people are more than happy to make less than $50/hr on vacation. :toast:

-Sonny-

 

[ihate17]

Yes, as a business

The thread is "the business of blackjack" and being in a business that nets you $5 per hour is a very bad choice, but we are taking a giant leap when we then expect the guy with the small bankroll to be playing as if it were a business.

People play for all sorts of reasons. The advanced advantage player is in business and runs his game that way. The addicted gambler needs help and his game reflects that. But there is no reason that a low rolling game player can not enjoy himself while being the best player he can with his limited funds. He knows he is wasting time but perhaps it is a hobby, a social thing for him and if he counts and makes $5 per hour doing it, he sees it as better than doing the same thing and losing $10 per hour.

If I actually played as if it were my business, I would have done several things differently over the past bunch of years. My bankroll grew to the point where I should have expanded (increased my max bet) but I choose not too because I do enjoy playing and felt that bringing my max bet to a $5,000 level would put me under more watchful eyes and severely lower the total amount of casinos I could play in. So I decreased my blackjack bankroll and invested the excess. Meanwhile I make less than $100 per hour at blackjack, might have been able to make over $300 per hour, but still enjoy myself and have no trouble getting whatever hours I want to get in.

The money has always been very nice but I have always made more in my regular occupation and for me the key is not just how much I make but the fact that I know I can beat the casino at its own game.

Different people have different motivations behind their reasons for using advantage play. I see nothing wrong with the red chip guy who only makes a few bucks per hours plus some comps, enjoying himself along the way. Where I run into a problem is if this same guy wants to suppliment his income doing this because if he needs the money, a job is the only way to go.

ihate17

 

[toastblows]

yeah, Ihate re-iterates what this thread is about. If this is a hobby or you are learning or just like to play BJ and dont care about wins/losses...no one here is saying its a waste of time in that sense (well, most hobbys in other peoples eyes are wastes of time, but you know what i mean).

As a business, $10/hr is easily attainable with no risk working a job. :cool2:

If you want to attain a modest starting roll of say 5k-10k, working extra jobs and investing will be faster than trying to build it by gambling low stakes. (Dont think that story of the guy starting with $300 for example and turning it into $40k in one night is attainable outside of some serious long shot odds. Guess what, people win the lottery too, but not many people quit their jobs and buy tickets full time like its a business because it's nearly impossible to attain the goal.)

 

[rogue1]

Hey,life is short. If a player has a small amount of money and ENJOYS what he/she is doing more power to them.

 

[k_c]

I'd just like to say that I think this thread gets to the essence if what it is to take up the game of blackjack.

k_c

 

[aslan]

See my post, "Just got off the AC treadmill." Although I don't play BJ as a business, I hope that it will become a profitable enterprise someday. Now, however, it is becoming a grind. If I cannot win decent dollars in a relatively short period of time, with a BR of $10,000 to $20,000, I will probably decide to quit except for the occasional fun trip.

 

[toastblows]

Now, however, it is becoming a grind.

I feel the same way. Less trips with a large BR is my new approach. Only vegas too, unless someone else wants to hit a reservation...which happens 1 time per year i reckon...:cool2:

 

[moo321]

yeah, Ihate re-iterates what this thread is about. If this is a hobby or you are learning or just like to play BJ and dont care about wins/losses...no one here is saying its a waste of time in that sense (well, most hobbys in other peoples eyes are wastes of time, but you know what i mean).

As a business, $10/hr is easily attainable with no risk working a job. :cool2:

If you want to attain a modest starting roll of say 5k-10k, working extra jobs and investing will be faster than trying to build it by gambling low stakes. (Dont think that story of the guy starting with $300 for example and turning it into $40k in one night is attainable outside of some serious long shot odds. Guess what, people win the lottery too, but not many people quit their jobs and buy tickets full time like its a business because it's nearly impossible to attain the goal.)

I turned $50 in a bankroll. But that was with casino bonuses. Honestly, though, I think you guys might be a little pessimistic about the real earnings potential of an aggressive, but short bankrolled counter.

Back-counting, wong-in wong-out, spreading 1-10 on an average shoe game is generally worth about $8-10 an hour with a $5 unit. With a $5k bankroll, you could probably do a $6 or $7 unit with okay ROR. That's not bad, as long as you're not traveling too far, and you get free stuff with it.

And a lot of players are taking shots with a shorter bankroll, understanding they may have a 20% ROR, hoping to build it up.

 

[toastblows]

Moo,

We were just commenting on people who see this as a job, or 2nd job with low bankrolls. Your example is not impossible....but there is a lot of luck to build a BR from $50 even when you play "perfectly"...even you can't deny that (meaning how many people in 100 will do that on average....1, 2 tops)?

If you want a $5K roll, the average person isnt going to be able to gamble it as fast as working/investing for it....if you fall in the normal RoR starting with say $300. Once you get a decent size BR, time invested/RoR becomes more worthwhile compared to say a 12% mutual fund return and a part time job making $10/hr. :cool2:

 

[shadroch]

$5,000 in a CD will give you about $250 a year in interest. Doesn't take many hours for even a $5 bettor to make more than that,if he knows what he's doing.If you played once a month,broke even and had a buffet dinner you'd be ahead of the game.

 

[glovesetc]

aslan- very very

astute and very wise . Keep it what it is . I must say the forums wisdom came through on this one as all posts were good in my opinion . :grin: :cool2: