Thoughts on the camera

[Automatic Monkey]

Here's just a couple of thoughts I have on surveillance cameras. I work with electronic cameras as an engineer so I'm familiar with their limitations. I don't believe there are any affordable cameras that have the resolution to both read an individual player's cards and record all of the action at the table. Just not enough pixels.

Another limitation is their color sensitivity. All cams I've ever seen work through that black plastic. That stuff transmits only wavelengths longer than about 800 nm, so color as we know it does not exist out there. Can they tell the color of the chips? I don't know, a future project of mine is to bring some different color chips home and photograph them with a CCD camera through some 800 nm plastic and see what they see.

Any thoughts on this? Seems like deceiving the cameras is a potential opportunity to enhance AP.

 

[gehrig]

cameras...

128:1 optical/digital. nevada gaming requires that each 21 game must have 3 cameras to view the table layout, dealer, and all players. it's not difficult to simultaneously aim 4-6 cameras on a suspect. that includes a player's feet for those who need their feet to maintain some count. one of those cameras should be able to get at least a 3/4 facial image. the 128:1 easily displays coin dates, currency serial numbers, the hairs on the back of a player's hand, wristwatch model, jewelry, the player's eye movements.

watching moves in slo-mo is interesting. b&w cameras are superior for detection of certain wavelengths. nevada gaming also requires that checque color/value be easily distinguishable by surveillance.

 

[ND]

Wrong........All chips have markings on the edge which are completely visible and whatever camera's you are working with must be very poor.

 

[phantom007]

I WISH YOU WERE RIGHT!!!

A number of years ago, let us say 4-5, I was staying and playing at a certain LV strip address, and was there for about one week. This time was in my "Ploppy to semi-Ploppy" transition phase, wherein, I had both won and lost lots of $$$, playing Progressive BJ and Craps.

Anyhow, betting and usually losing heavy Green-Black action, as I "was learning to CC", I was popular at this store. Free Room...no problem. Free FRB...of course. Limo. ride to the airport...PROVIDED!

DON"T WANT NO MORE 17K LIMO. RIDES...I tipped the Limo. driver $20. Appropriate??? I usually tip the Cab Driver $5. What would Martha Stewart do?

BUT TO THE POINT...and as usual, I hereby sacrifice my own ego FBO students of the game...a guy sits down beside me, and complements me on my play this afternoon. EGO BONER! EGO BONER!

"Mr. Phantom, you played all afternoon with my father. I watched you, and you are an excellent BJ player".

I was already DRUNK by the afternoon, and had no real idea with whom I had played with by the EVENING, which was now, but again, appreciated someone (besides the Pit) recognizing my skills. And of course, by now, I was just Sh#t FACED!!

THE SCAM WENT LIKE THIS:
-----1. Compliment me.
-----2. My father (who played with you all afternoon), will be here shortly with more $$$$.
-----3. Could you loan me a little until Dad gets here?
-----4. DRUNK and Sh#T-Faced, who cares, here is #8 Black.
-----5. Scamer plays a few hands of Red, and BADLY, then states something to the effect of: "Maybe Dad is going to be late...I will go to the Cashier and get your money you loaned me"...grabs #7 Black, and disappears out the door.
-----6. I realized what was going on, about 30 sec. after he left the table, i.e., he left a "Black and Change" on the table, and walked off with MY $$$!

BUT TO THE POINT OF THIS POST...
-----1. PC's/FP's flocked to my assistance.
-----2. I never got my money back...but PC's/FP's bitched at me and educated me as regarding my STUPIDITY!!!
-----3. About 15 min. later, PC's/FP's showed me HIS PICTURES...from the Riviera, Stardust, Bellagio, Flamingo...all printed off their "picture fax", likely from Griffin. Obviously, I was not HIS first victim.

THEREFORE, THEIR CAMERA TECHNIQUES ARE PRETTY GOOD!

IMHO!

phantom007.

 

[Geoff Hall]

I've seen surveillance cameras in operation and also videos from surveillance cameras (not in USA though) and the quality is enough to see both the cards and the chip denominations. Also, there is a camera available that can read the dealers cards and record the total of the hand.

Best regards

Geoff

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Good information

If they are using an adjustable camera with zoom that answers a lot of questions. Seems like they would have to zoom in on someone's say, feet, if that's what they were looking for, and they couldn't necessarily roll back the tape and get someone's history of feet use because the camera was on the table. They'd have to be tipped off. Also if they have 3 or 4 cameras zoomed in on third base for some suspicion it's unlikely they have more than one on first base. They only have so many cameras.

Something I've always thought about doing but know better: bring a small handheld IR laser to the casino and point it into a camera, see if they realize what it is.

 

[gehrig]

that "ir" laser will get the attention...

of an agent, particularly with a b&w camera.

the overall issue is that those who are *winning* will have their play evaluated. so if your third base player is winning, he'd deserve a look. same with your first base player. if the players were psychics but lost, who cares ? guys who count by stacking or arranging their checques are amusing, until they win. coolest move by surveillance cum pitstiff is to 86 an identified "advantage" player, when he's down. that's kinda like the joint that pulled the comps and credit line of a whale when he was half way through his line, thus prohibiting him from "getting right".

how long would it take any of the attendent "advantage" players to i.d. a fellow card counter ? cheaters, those employing shuffle tracking, ace locating/steering, or hole carders, will take longer to sort out.

bottom line for *most* "advantage" players and their acts, is to enjoy camouflage within the flock. operating below the radar is the issue without a phenom act. and to work within that flock is an art.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Re: blending in

Now I'm not too afraid of being barred when I'm down. That principle defies the mathematics of the game, just like a counter leaving when he's ahead does. The win/loss column has no memory. Last night, I played green, won my first couple of hands and walked out 4 hours later $1800 richer. They'd have had a hell of a wait for me to be down.

But playing under the radar, that's the ticket. My problem is now: at my favorite stores, the size of my action stands out from the crowd on the weekdays. On weekends it's the right size, but the tables are too crowded for me to play two hands or to Wong around. And I'm not yet big enough to play in the high-limit area. My act is pretty solid (drunk) and my stores probably the most tolerant in the US, but as my bets increase I'm going to have to get to some more venues.

 

[gehrig]

yes, your conclusion is correct.

spread the gains over a larger "host" base. i've long had a polish toothache for those "advantage" players/authors who aggressively push the pitstiffs tolerance. that's fine for the weekend warrior or someone who needs to show off before his cronies. that's imbecilic for a counterazzo who wants to twist the greater long term buck from this game. the lout gets 86'd with maybe a backroom, lots of faxed photos/image records to boot. the mosquito gets fed, and fed, and fed.