Total Rewards inflation
- Thread starter 21forme
- Start date
Wow.
A business tighting its belt in a time of an economic downturn. I'm shocked.
Apollo overpaid for Harrahs. It's ambitious development plans have fallen along the wayside. It owns lots of land it can't afford to develop. It's reduced the Diamond Lounges to a shadow of what they were. In todays business model, they no longer care for the Diamond clientale. If you aren't Seven Star, you might as well be Gold.
A business tighting its belt in a time of an economic downturn. I'm shocked.
Apollo overpaid for Harrahs. It's ambitious development plans have fallen along the wayside. It owns lots of land it can't afford to develop. It's reduced the Diamond Lounges to a shadow of what they were. In todays business model, they no longer care for the Diamond clientale. If you aren't Seven Star, you might as well be Gold.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
That's true. The comps don't cost them jack-diddly-squat, especially lodging comps. Liquor and transportation, those are the only things a big establishment pays more than a small fraction of what you or I would pay.moo321 said:
Although, I don't see how anyone gets above Gold level without being a CG. I spread green into multiple black and I get about 20% of the way to Platinum every year.
Automatic Monkey said:
You've got to think outside the box. I did it for awhile, but the difference in comps between Gold and Diamond aren't worth it any more. The only benefit Diamond offers that is worth it, imo, are the free water taxis in Laughlin and the seperate line at check-in.
I made it to Diamond in about 6 months, with that goal in mind. Reason for doing so is I'm going to be moving away from AC-land next year and want to have room comps available in LV. If it is 15K next year, that could be pushing it for me...
I've already heard a lot of grumbling from people about it. I think it would have been smarter to leave the threshold numbers as is, but cut the rate at which they issue Rewards Credits. It would be almost invisible that way.
I've already heard a lot of grumbling from people about it. I think it would have been smarter to leave the threshold numbers as is, but cut the rate at which they issue Rewards Credits. It would be almost invisible that way.
moo321 said:
They gambled and lost. Thats not what casinos are supposed to do.
I don't think they've cut comps, just raised the amount of play needed to reach certain levels. My Gold comps have not suffered, and Harrahs as a company doesn't seem to have cut back their drink services or their marketing offers.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
I got platinum in a few months from play at a local shop, before I was barred. So diamond would have been doable with LOTS of blackjack play.Automatic Monkey said:
But most people would do it on the machines. In the old days, when it was more of a no brainer, I guess people would find a decent video poker machine somewhere, pound the crap out of it for around 3k points in one day, and voila... instant Diamond.
Rewards for table games are very hit and miss. One thing I used to do was check my account daily and see if the pit was generous or tight. I also figured out that most pit bosses credited you with your original bet in Let It Ride, even though you usually end up with only a third exposed on bad hands.
Of course, you used to be able to double book in two casinos, bring along three buds and tell them the room is free but I need you to play an hour or two on my card in order to get free rooms next trip.
Of course, you used to be able to double book in two casinos, bring along three buds and tell them the room is free but I need you to play an hour or two on my card in order to get free rooms next trip.
This year, I've gotten 655 Reward points. I've gotten 12 free nights in Vegas, twenty something in AC, more buffets than I can eat and have recieved marketing offers for cash that total well over $1,000 if I had gone every day they offered something.On Thanksgiving Day, they sent me an offer I almost couldn't refuse. Earn 250 base points (run $1250 thru a slot machine or $2500 thru a Video Poker machine) and receive a card guarenteed to award anywhere from $250 to $1000.Thunder said:
harrahs games do suck, but I think their comps are the best I've come across.
Finn Dog
Well-Known Member
ER is right: the best way to get Diamond is to knock it out in one day on the machines--but that's 3,000 Tier in a 24 hour period: with $5 in for slots equalling 1 Tier point and $10 in for VP equalling 1 Tier point.EasyRhino said:
That takes about 2 grr to get the job done--if you're lucky you'll break even by 3,000 points--but of course, that doesn't happen too often on slots.
Ask me how I know.
Wouldn't surprise me to see them raise the daily requirement now, too.
This seems like a good time to ask how does the MGM system work by comparison?
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VIP programs fading...
My local casino, non USA, non Harrahs, also seems to be penny pinching. In the VIP rooms that I play in, they've been gradually changing the wine selection from nice lower-end champagnes (Moet, Lanson etc) to cheapish cava / sparkling wine alternatives. And the food has gone from reasonable "meals" to snacks / soup etc. I've told my host that I'm going to reduce my play as a result - and that I can drink the cheap wine at home! This does seem to be a global trend however, and one which we as players should combine to stamp out...
My local casino, non USA, non Harrahs, also seems to be penny pinching. In the VIP rooms that I play in, they've been gradually changing the wine selection from nice lower-end champagnes (Moet, Lanson etc) to cheapish cava / sparkling wine alternatives. And the food has gone from reasonable "meals" to snacks / soup etc. I've told my host that I'm going to reduce my play as a result - and that I can drink the cheap wine at home! This does seem to be a global trend however, and one which we as players should combine to stamp out...
Finn Dog
Well-Known Member
Well said.davidpom said:
And back to Harrah's Diamond: it's simply not worth it.
Case in point: I'm a Diamond member, and let's take an inventory of what I get at Diamond vs. an entry-level Gold player:
Let's see, with every stay I get: a free room, dining comps valued at about $100, then there's the $200 - $300 of Reel Rewards, oh and dare I forget: access to the Diamond Lounge--where I can get free booze, finger sandwiches, plus cheese and crackers.
All this takes 11,000 Tier points every 12 months: so at $5 in for every Tier point, it takes $55,000 of "money in" to get you this "status". Of course, "money in" doesn't anywhere near reflect principal (thankfully); a more realistic analysis of the money in requirement is about 1:8 to 1:10 or so (say $5,500 to $7,000 or so to get you there in hard dollars with your winnings).
Now let's compare this to my wife's Gold card--she has only a few hundred Tier points in for the year, and for this she currently has offers for free rooms and buffet coupons.
So the net difference between her Gold and my Diamond is a lousey $200 -$300 in Reel Rewards per trip (say $1000 for the year max) and the free snack crackers and sandwiches (because you can get free booze anywhere in the casino of course).
Diamond has become a complete joke.
Therefore, I'm through with "trying" to achieve Diamond. If it happens by accident, it happens (through no fault of my own)!
Best regards,
FD
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Automatic Monkey
Banned
Wait a minute, where did you get a 1:10 ratio of loss to action? You can play VP with a 0.46% house edge in lots of HET properties. I know VP rings up credits at half the rate as slots... OK let's say it takes $110K in action to get to your tier, that's an expected loss of $506.Finn Dog said:
I don't know what Reel Rewards are, but I'm assuming it's free slot play and if you get $1K of it in a year, that's $950 in EV right there. Plus do you really get RFB for the rest of the year for this? On a $5 machine a good VP player can hit that tier in 6 hours. Certainly worth it if you're a traveling AP; there's a HET property in most venues where you can get a meal and sleep. Some of the places I've spent the night in on the road trying to save money would scare you to death.
Automatic Monkey is right. You can even do better than that! Caesars Windsor, for example, has a Pick 'em Poker game that has a theoretical return of 99.95%. Also, every $10 played gets you $0.01 in cash back. Playing through $110,000 will cost you a mere $55 and you'll receive $110 in cash back!Automatic Monkey said:
Include all the free food, gifts, weekly free cash, free shows and rooms and you have yourself an incredible deal!
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No, you don't have a fantastic deal. You have a good one, but not worth the losses you risk to get there.
At most Harrahs, VP sucks. You get 1 point for every $10, so you need put $110,000 in play.
You get monthly cash and shows,not weekly.
They have weakened Diamond benefits to the point its just not worth it. Gold members get more than enough for most people,
At most Harrahs, VP sucks. You get 1 point for every $10, so you need put $110,000 in play.
You get monthly cash and shows,not weekly.
They have weakened Diamond benefits to the point its just not worth it. Gold members get more than enough for most people,
I've fixed my post for $110,000 in play. Whatever the amount needed, the game has a positive expected value when you include cash back. It's just one example of how you can get the Diamond playing a strong game.shadroch said:
I do get weekly cash from Harrahs. I also get a mailer every month with a list of free shows that I can attend. Usually there are about 3-4, and not the big acts, like Celine or Elton tickets. If you'd like, I can post my TR page with the list of shows and schedule for weekly cash.
Finn Dog
Well-Known Member
The 1:8 to 1:10 ratio represents an actual annual loss--and was based on slot play where $5 of money in on slots equals 1 Tier point, so with 11,000 Tier points required in a year, that's $55,000 of money in on an annual basis (the range in the ratio represents camo in the likely event of HET monitoring).Automatic Monkey said:
Please define RBF.
Yes, Reel Rewards are free slot play for your next trip based on how many Tier points you earned on your last trip. No apparent formula: inexplicably generous at times and cheap at others.
This kind of loss entitled me to half a dozen trips when I wanted them. No coupons, just pick up the phone and call the host.
Still seem like such a good deal now? Because reaching Diamond takes incurring some pretty heavy losses on slots if you earn Diamond slowly on an annual basis (unless you're extremely lucky of course). And I've heard the VP machines at Harrah's are the worst around.
As far as the daily requirement of 3000 Tier points in 24 hours to make Diamond is concerned, I can make it with BR of 2K-3K on slots. What kind of BR do you need on VP? Since slots require $5 of money in to equal 1 Tier point while VP requires $10, I'm guessing you'd need a 24-hour BR of $4,000 to $6,000 to make 3000 points?
Best regards,
FD
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