Tracking your cash flow

beat320

Well-Known Member
I was just curious how certain people do this. I've started an excel file that has the location, date, session BR, amount cashed out, expenses (hotel/gas/food), session gain/loss, and total BR amount as well as an xy scatter graph of BR amount ($) vs. trip number.

Anything else I should put in there? How are you guys doing this? Just curious, thanks!
 

Preston

Well-Known Member
I use a notebook for overall sessions.

but I also track my winnings with Quicken. Helps me see the whole financial picture
 

Paradox

Well-Known Member
Hand written notes

If audited, excel files do not make them happy. Spreadsheets can easily be forged in a small matter of time. Along with your spreadsheets, they want to see the hand written notes you took at the casino that you then transfered to Excel or your PDA. Audits suck, especially when you think you've done it all correctly, only to find you haven't.

I'd add:
How many minutes I played, which table and the dealer's name. Heat received, what clothing I was wearing and I note which name I used, if I didn't play anon. Also, anything special-bad or AP-good.
The PC's name

Tokes, if any. Never toke without tracking it, NEVER! Humans have selective memories, don't depend on yours for tokes. No one should. It can suck you dry as quick as the house edge or faster. I toke when appropriate to my personal values, but I know exactly how much. I would never tip more than 15% of my EV or the house edge. 15% is a fair tip in my book. So many counters give away much if not most of their EV in what they consider "a little tipping." Working for casino tips must suck.


Paradox
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
It depends on whether you're considering this a business. If you are, and you're writing off business expenses, I'd save receipts and make sure to take good notes. If not, just make sure you report the income and have some records for each trip.
 

Rspeirsmlb

Well-Known Member
Taxes.

If I am at a loss for the year (just recreational player for now)....and I have a player's club card....can't I just ask the casino for a report to show my losses for tax purposes? (mainly for if the fat lady sings and I ever get audited).......I haven't had ANY transactions above $9,000....some days I've won $7,000 some days I've lost $5k, etc. ....I'm positive I'm at a loss but don't have EXACT notes on how much....I'm going to start to keep track of the exact amount from now on....I just don't want to be audited and have to be taxed on some of my winnings when in all reality I'm at a loss.....Also, won't the casino give me a print-out of my play history? Thank you.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
Rspeirsmlb said:
If I am at a loss for the year (just recreational player for now)....and I have a player's club card....can't I just ask the casino for a report to show my losses for tax purposes? (mainly for if the fat lady sings and I ever get audited).......I haven't had ANY transactions above $9,000....some days I've won $7,000 some days I've lost $5k, etc. ....I'm positive I'm at a loss but don't have EXACT notes on how much....I'm going to start to keep track of the exact amount from now on....I just don't want to be audited and have to be taxed on some of my winnings when in all reality I'm at a loss.....Also, won't the casino give me a print-out of my play history? Thank you.
You'd have to talk to the casino. I think some of them can do this.
 
Paradox said:
If audited, excel files do not make them happy. Spreadsheets can easily be forged in a small matter of time. Along with your spreadsheets, they want to see the hand written notes you took at the casino that you then transfered to Excel or your PDA. Audits suck, especially when you think you've done it all correctly, only to find you haven't.

I'd add:
How many minutes I played, which table and the dealer's name. Heat received, what clothing I was wearing and I note which name I used, if I didn't play anon. Also, anything special-bad or AP-good.
The PC's name

Tokes, if any. Never toke without tracking it, NEVER! Humans have selective memories, don't depend on yours for tokes. No one should. It can suck you dry as quick as the house edge or faster. I toke when appropriate to my personal values, but I know exactly how much. I would never tip more than 15% of my EV or the house edge. 15% is a fair tip in my book. So many counters give away much if not most of their EV in what they consider "a little tipping." Working for casino tips must suck.


Paradox
that seems like quite a bit of info to keep track of, and for me, it would take a lot away from my ability to count, but the more the better, as long as you can handle it, which i couldnt; all that info would drive me crazy.. i keep track of the date, casino, win/loss total, and comps, and thats it, because i pretty much play 4 hours everytime anyways, and also, i wong, so i cant really divide wins by hours played with as much accuracy..

15% of your EV? that seems like a lot.. so if your EV is 1%, you give the dealer .0015*hph*avg bet? for me it would be .00045*75*10=$.33/hr? oh, i guess thats not so bad! it would actually be less than that because i dont play every hand, since i wong, so it would be more like $.15/hr (btw, im aware that my average bet would be more like $11-12 if im betting $10 flat, but whatever).. i was thinking of 15% of your hourly win rate.. wait nvm thats the same thing as 15% of your ev! duh..

i dunno, are casino dealers to be tipped the usual 15% like most tipping jobs? problem is, 15% of what? if it worked like restaurants, you would tip 15% of the total amount of money you put thru the table, which would bankrupt you.. probably 90% of people tip in bars and restaurants, if not more, but i see like 20% tipping at casinos, but then again there are the few people who tip probably 10% of everything they are putting out onto the table, which is crazy..

i am against tipping for most things, as i feel they should pay the employees more, UNLESS it is a job where the quality of the job to the customer can vary, such as a waiter, who can not refill your drinks, forget parts of the order, etc, but a dealer has to do the exact same job all the time, and yes ive heard about the various tiny things they can do such as not rat you out if your counting but pff, i dont tip ever, especially since my bankroll is $2000, but i tip up to 20-25% at bars, restaurants, etc.. it pisses me off when i see a tip line on a receipt at a fast food franchise, like kfc
 
Last edited:

Kasi

Well-Known Member
SilentBob420BMFJ said:
that seems like quite a bit of info to keep track of, and for me, it would take a lot away from my ability to count, but the more the better, as long as you can handle it, which i couldnt; all that info would drive me crazy.. i keep track of the date, casino, win/loss total, and comps, and thats it, because i pretty much play 4 hours everytime anyways, and also, i wong, so i cant really divide wins by hours played with as much accuracy..
The way I see it one's goal is to analyze one's BJ play. I don't care if you tip $1/hand or $1 every hundred hands. The idea is to know what your BJ play has produced.

How hard would it be to take a notebook or piece of paper out of your pocket once an hour or so and write down $X?

X being what you maybe tipped the waitress from chips for drinks or the dealer.

How that effects your counting ability, I don't quite see.

And to not record your hours played because you "pretty much play 4 hours everytime"?

How hard is it to write down a ""4" or "3" or, God forbid, a "4.5"?

I hope you're satisfied that all you know for sure 100 sessions from now is that you are up $200 or whatever.

How does the fact you once bet $3/hand instead of $10 factor into your diary that, seems to me, only records dollars won or lost on a certain date?

No big deal but I can't over-stress the importance of recording results in some useful fashion. And only recording a dollar amount won or lost, which it sounds to me is all that you currently do, is just not very useful.

You really think the casino would give a damn, or even know, or your counting ability effected, by making a hash mark on a piece of paper to indicate you played a hand?

Whatever. Just trying to help believe it or not lol.
 
Kasi said:
The way I see it one's goal is to analyze one's BJ play. I don't care if you tip $1/hand or $1 every hundred hands. The idea is to know what your BJ play has produced.

How hard would it be to take a notebook or piece of paper out of your pocket once an hour or so and write down $X?

X being what you maybe tipped the waitress from chips for drinks or the dealer.

How that effects your counting ability, I don't quite see.

And to not record your hours played because you "pretty much play 4 hours everytime"?

How hard is it to write down a ""4" or "3" or, God forbid, a "4.5"?

I hope you're satisfied that all you know for sure 100 sessions from now is that you are up $200 or whatever.

How does the fact you once bet $3/hand instead of $10 factor into your diary that, seems to me, only records dollars won or lost on a certain date?

No big deal but I can't over-stress the importance of recording results in some useful fashion. And only recording a dollar amount won or lost, which it sounds to me is all that you currently do, is just not very useful.

You really think the casino would give a damn, or even know, or your counting ability effected, by making a hash mark on a piece of paper to indicate you played a hand?

Whatever. Just trying to help believe it or not lol.

i agree with you, but i only play about 40-45% of my hands, so i would think that would make my hourly rate very volatile, thus pretty much useless.. $10 in 1 hour is not the same are $30 in 1 hour if you are wonging, because you could have played only 1 hand or 50 hands, who knows.. the point of writing down how many hours you play is to get an idea of your win rate, but with wonging i think it would be different, altho i guess i could just assume i play 30 hands/hour or whatever.. the reason i said it affects my counting is because i cant really do the true count quickly, and figure out if i need to deviate, all while counting, which is why im thinking of switching to knockout.. i dont play enuf anyways to get things averaged out, so i wouldnt be able to tell much anyways from how many hours i played
 
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