Undetected?
- Thread starter aslan
- Start date
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
One of the grumpy Gus's over at the BJ21 boards mentioned that if you're not getting backed off, you're doing something wrong. There's probably a lot of truth to that.
If you hadn't read Ian Anderson's Burning the Tables in Las Vegas, then it's worth a shot. He's managed to play a lengthy career at the black chip level without getting barred, or at least any barring that stuck.
My total for the year has been two backoffs and one selective shuffle, so when referenced with the first comment, I'm only barely doing things right
If you hadn't read Ian Anderson's Burning the Tables in Las Vegas, then it's worth a shot. He's managed to play a lengthy career at the black chip level without getting barred, or at least any barring that stuck.
My total for the year has been two backoffs and one selective shuffle, so when referenced with the first comment, I'm only barely doing things right
aslan
Well-Known Member
Do you make any attempt (I'm sure you do) to disguise your play? What do you do? What's your advice for someone just starting out?EasyRhino said:One of the grumpy Gus's over at the BJ21 boards mentioned that if you're not getting backed off, you're doing something wrong. There's probably a lot of truth to that.
If you hadn't read Ian Anderson's Burning the Tables in Las Vegas, then it's worth a shot. He's managed to play a lengthy career at the black chip level without getting barred, or at least any barring that stuck.
My total for the year has been two backoffs and one selective shuffle, so when referenced with the first comment, I'm only barely doing things right
suicyco maniac
Well-Known Member
Get over the fear of being backed off or barred. Its really just part of the game. I'm not saying to go out of your way and do things to intentionally get barred but learn to accept that it is gonna happen. I've been backed off well over 100 times and so have most serious players.aslan said:
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Yes I agree. It's like being a baseball player who is afraid to get hit with a pitch. If you flinch on every pitch you will never get a hit, you have to accept getting beaned as a painful part of the game. Usually you just get a bruise.suicyco maniac said:
In balance, a baseball player still tries to avoid getting hit because he knows if he gets hit the bad way it can end his career. Likewise, we should try to minimize our contact with casino security, because every encounter has a potential for ending up in a bad way; arrested, flyered, Griffinized, and being a lot of security guards are mentally unstable you can't predict what else might happen to you. Of course this bad stuff is very rare. The most reasonable idea I can think of is not fearing a backoff but knowing ways to prevent a simple backoff from escalating into anything worse.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Now, I am a sub-neophyte, but I like to modulate the aggressiveness with which you approach a casino depending on where I'm at. If it's a local place that I plan to frequent often, I'll take it easier on them. Getting 86'd from a local game if it's the only one nearby can be a real drag (ask Scott and Supercool).
If I'm out of town at a place where I'll only be for the weekend, and there's plenty of stores in the area, the F'em, I'm going for it.
As for dodging heat, there are three ways to approach it:
1) Keep your sessions brief. This is very easy to do! Rules of thumb vary from under and hour to under 30 minutes (or "leave at the end of the first shoe where you bet big").
2) The Act. This can range from being just generally comfortable and friendly at the table, to dressing up like a homeless circus clown.
3) Playing cover, or intentionally making betting or playing decisions that are not perfectly keyed with the count. For this, read Ian Anderson's Burning the Table in Las Vegas, about the Ultimate Gambit. It's a combination of restricted betting and intentional playing mistakes that would be the make prudent cover to make on any regular basis. And it's overkill for anyone who's not a black-chipper.
Personally, I don't have an act, my session length varies wildly, and I try implement a certain amount of betting restrictions, but far from the Ultimate Gambit.
If I'm out of town at a place where I'll only be for the weekend, and there's plenty of stores in the area, the F'em, I'm going for it.
As for dodging heat, there are three ways to approach it:
1) Keep your sessions brief. This is very easy to do! Rules of thumb vary from under and hour to under 30 minutes (or "leave at the end of the first shoe where you bet big").
2) The Act. This can range from being just generally comfortable and friendly at the table, to dressing up like a homeless circus clown.
3) Playing cover, or intentionally making betting or playing decisions that are not perfectly keyed with the count. For this, read Ian Anderson's Burning the Table in Las Vegas, about the Ultimate Gambit. It's a combination of restricted betting and intentional playing mistakes that would be the make prudent cover to make on any regular basis. And it's overkill for anyone who's not a black-chipper.
Personally, I don't have an act, my session length varies wildly, and I try implement a certain amount of betting restrictions, but far from the Ultimate Gambit.
aslan
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
Thanks for the useful tips and encouragement. I think the cat and mouse game between the house and player is really part of the overall attraction of card counting (besides the obvious, money). Where else can you get a weekend full of adventure and intrigue, which might well turn out profitable as well! It's not Raiders of the Lost Ark, but it does get the old ticker pumping a little above the norm.
Thanks for the useful tips and encouragement. I think the cat and mouse game between the house and player is really part of the overall attraction of card counting (besides the obvious, money). Where else can you get a weekend full of adventure and intrigue, which might well turn out profitable as well! It's not Raiders of the Lost Ark, but it does get the old ticker pumping a little above the norm.
Cardcounter
Well-Known Member
Back offs!
I have been backed off 5 times playing at 3 differen't places. To the man above you been backed off more than a 100 times are you serious. How many different places is that? 100 Times seems like an awful lot. How much do you bet?
I have been backed off 5 times playing at 3 differen't places. To the man above you been backed off more than a 100 times are you serious. How many different places is that? 100 Times seems like an awful lot. How much do you bet?
sagefr0g
Well-Known Member
never been backed off or any of that but then i've always played at the red chip level with 90% of my play only 1:8 spread. i'm just very quite at the tables and try and be a likeable guy. chum it up with the locals, semi whales ect. i try and make my cover linked to reality as much as i can.
closest thing to being 86'd i've experienced was while wonging into a green chip table. the pit boss gave me this stare that was about the most intense gaping i've ever experienced. i jus sort of melted away into the crowd.
closest thing to being 86'd i've experienced was while wonging into a green chip table. the pit boss gave me this stare
that was about the most intense gaping i've ever experienced. i jus sort of melted away into the crowd.
zengrifter
Banned
A while back I did a Vegas team play with some kids from Stanford and one of them asked me, "Marcus, what casinos here have you been backed off or barred from?" I answered, "All of them." zg
Ps - There is not a single club that has barred me that I still will not play, even regularly. Ask Edgecapper.
Ps - There is not a single club that has barred me that I still will not play, even regularly. Ask Edgecapper.
suicyco maniac
Well-Known Member
Getting backed off/barred is just a part of life for full time AP's and also for serious part time players. If you are playing a strong (aka winning) game they will eventually back you off. Sometimes it is just for cume win and they really don't even know why you are winning.Cardcounter said:
To answer your questions I am not totally sure on the # of backoffs I have had. I know it was over 80 a few years ago and I've had several more since then. I would estimate its around 125 or so. Several backoffs were after returning to play casinos I was previously backed off at. I almost always give a place one year before I go back in but there are exceptions. As for the size of my bets they vary depending on the game and locale. I have played promos with max bets as low as $25 and I have played as large as 2x2500 on occasion. It may surprise you but I usually get more heat at 10 greens then I get for 10 purples.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Yes I call that "Whale-Effect Protection." This happens to me a lot in SD games where I get away with spreading green and black in a place that backs off red action. Especially in a desperate and depressed place like Reno where black action is rare and they want to be absolutely sure you are a threat before chasing it away.suicyco maniac said:
When the day comes that I touch a purple chip to the felt I'll let you know if it still works. Actually yes, once I did bet a purple chip in an extraordinary situation I was 100% certain the next card was ace, but that doesn't really count for a spread.