What counting system is for me?

[positiveEV]

Hi everyone,

I recently started learning blackjack (never played for real money tho) and I would like to know what card counting system I should use. I have a lot of time to practice (60+ hours a week) so I think I can master a pretty hard system. I don't want to use Hi-Lo as it seems way too basic and as I said I got time to learn a more complicated system.

I would also like to have some specifications about the system. I tried out Hi-Opt II and I became pretty good at it but then I read at some places I also needed to keep side counts while doing it, then I was thinking "damn, I hope I didn't practiced for nothing :flame: ". So, what system is for me if I can spend a lot of time practicing and what side counts and other things I need to do while counting? By the way I think I am mostly going to play against 6 decks shoes that stand with soft 17.

Best regards and thanks in advance

 

[positiveEV]

Oh by the way, is there any website that can give me complete informations for each kind of counting system? By complete I mean the side counts required, the BS variations, etc.

Thanks in advance

 

[QFIT]

Oh by the way, is there any website that can give me complete informations for each kind of counting system? By complete I mean the side counts required, the BS variations, etc.

Thanks in advance

Copying all of the index tables to a website without permission would be a copyright violation. However, the CV Blackjack demo has all the tables and other settings for most of the popular systems. By permission from the various authors.

 

[EasyRhino]

I wouldn't recommend diving directly into an advance system. Actually, a friend of mine tried to learn a system with an Ace side count as his first one, and he just collapsed when he first got to a casino.

I'd recommend something fairly simple (Hi lo, etc), get that nailed in practice, then study some of the play variations (start with Illustrious 18). If you still want more complexitiy after that, then you'll have a good foundation to switch to something else.

Personally, I'm at the level of the really easy counts, like KO or Red 7.

 

[positiveEV]

I wouldn't recommend diving directly into an advance system. Actually, a friend of mine tried to learn a system with an Ace side count as his first one, and he just collapsed when he first got to a casino.

I'd recommend something fairly simple (Hi lo, etc), get that nailed in practice, then study some of the play variations (start with Illustrious 18). If you still want more complexitiy after that, then you'll have a good foundation to switch to something else.

Personally, I'm at the level of the really easy counts, like KO or Red 7.

But the thing is I got hundreds of hours to practice before actually attempting to do it in a real casino, I will run computerized simulations to make sure I can do it well and once I practiced enough I will practice even more.

Anyway, what is so "hard" with level 2+ counts? I can count a deck using the Hi-Opt II method under 40sec without any mistakes, but the thing is I didn't knew I also needed to do a side count while using this method. Are the side counts absolutely required when using a level 2+ counting system such as Hi-Opt II?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...Are the side counts absolutely required when using a level 2+ counting system such as Hi-Opt II?

Sure, if you want it to be stronger than High-Low. You are throwing money away by using Hi-Opt II without the ace sidecount.

 

[LeonShuffle]

For 6 or 8 deck shoes, it's best to stick with a simpler count. More advanced counts don't give you too much more of an advantage and if you make an error here or there, it negates any extra value there may be. I play multi-deck shoes and I use Red 7. And I count down a deck in 15 seconds. 14 on a good day.

 

[BJLover]

For 6 or 8 deck shoes, it's best to stick with a simpler count. More advanced counts don't give you too much more of an advantage and if you make an error here or there, it negates any extra value there may be. I play multi-deck shoes and I use Red 7. And I count down a deck in 15 seconds. 14 on a good day.

am trying to nail down hi-lo with illustrios 18, then i might try the zen count,its a level 2 count, i quite like the look of it, if youve got loads of time u could have hi-lo down stone cold and be able to try it in a casino to see if you could handle a more advanced count, everybody i speak to reccomends hi-lo, red 7 or KO for your first count, counting at home is alot different from a casino so u wont know if u can handle a more advanced count until youve tried a simplier count in actual casino play, just an idea.

 

[Sonny]

But the thing is I got hundreds of hours to practice before actually attempting to do it in a real casino

That’s good news because it will take hundreds of hours to learn even a simple system. Between the counting speed, the table cancellations, perfecting BS play, TC conversions, calculating optimal bets, index plays, recognizing dealer errors, dealing with distractions, understanding variance/ROR, scouting table conditions, optimal play/departure points, and creating an “act” you have plenty of work ahead of you. And that’s just the bare essentials of card counting! Once you prefect those elements you’ll be ready to move past the amateur level.

I can count a deck using the Hi-Opt II method under 40sec without any mistakes

Hopefully you mean way under 40 seconds! I use Hi-Opt II and am disappointed if it takes me longer than 20-25 seconds to get through a deck – and that’s with the side count. A casino player shouldn’t settle for anything more than 30 seconds. See the link below:

(Dead link: http://www.hitorstand.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3563)

-Sonny-

 

[positiveEV]

That’s good news because it will take hundreds of hours to learn even a simple system. Between the counting speed, the table cancellations, perfecting BS play, TC conversions, calculating optimal bets, index plays, recognizing dealer errors, dealing with distractions, understanding variance/ROR, scouting table conditions, optimal play/departure points, and creating an “act” you have plenty of work ahead of you. And that’s just the bare essentials of card counting! Once you prefect those elements you’ll be ready to move past the amateur level.



Hopefully you mean way under 40 seconds! I use Hi-Opt II and am disappointed if it takes me longer than 20-25 seconds to get through a deck – and that’s with the side count. A casino player shouldn’t settle for anything more than 30 seconds. See the link below:

(Dead link: http://www.hitorstand.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3563)

-Sonny-

WOW
Look like it will take longer than I expected to be ready =/

 

[fresher]

i only started counting about 5 days ago,started with hi lo then moved to ko and can count a deck down in 23 - 25 secs.was also thinking about moving to a level 2 count.

 

[mdlbj]

I agree with sonny, sure the level 2 counts are sexy but, you will have much more on your plate than you think. Also, practicing at home is not the same as even playing a BS game at a ma and pa casino..

Good luck.

 

[sagefr0g]

I agree with sonny, sure the level 2 counts are sexy but, you will have much more on your plate than you think. Also, practicing at home is not the same as even playing a BS game at a ma and pa casino..

Good luck.

agreed, i already feel like i'm juggling plenty just doing hi/lo, deck estimation, TC conversion, I18, optimal betting, watching for exposed hole cards and trying to keep up with the swishing cocktail waitress's tush. :juggle:

 

[EasyRhino]

swishing cocktail waitress's tush. :juggle:

Amen to that, brother.

 

[golfnut101]

counting a deck

when you say 'count down a deck' do you mean flipping them over, or deck face up, and shuffling through them ? Just wondering how some of the experienced players count down a deck ?

 

[sagefr0g]

when you say 'count down a deck' do you mean flipping them over, or deck face up, and shuffling through them ? Just wondering how some of the experienced players count down a deck ?

all ways.... take a deck flip one card at a time, take a deck flip two cards at a time. also take the whole deck, spread the cards face up by sections on a table and then count them. also if you have a program such as CVB or sage-blackjack you can use their counting drills.

 

[ortango]

For 6 or 8 deck shoes, it's best to stick with a simpler count. More advanced counts don't give you too much more of an advantage and if you make an error here or there, it negates any extra value there may be. I play multi-deck shoes and I use Red 7. And I count down a deck in 15 seconds. 14 on a good day.

I totally agree. Hi-Lo is not really "simple" if you consider using 50 indexes, keep a very natural conversation with players and dealers, and also pretend to watch the big screen TV and not the cards. Also consider when you play heads up with a fast dealer, I can play 300 hands an hour and not miss a beat with Hi Lo. Last but not least, I often back count two tables at a time, to double my wonging benefit and I cant even imagine doing that with a lvl2 as it is hard enough with HiLo.:cow: