What do you do if...

[Preston]

What is my course of action on this?

I have four casinos nearby. One of them is a dump I'll admit, but I'm hitting them all to keep from getting too familiar, ifyou know what I mean.

All offer double deck games, which is what I normally play. The shoe games at the others are 6 decks, but this one is 8.

I have backcounted their tables several times and I will see runnings counts of +50 (Mentor count -- 2 level system similar to Zen) after 3 decks have been played at and still see flurries of small cards coming out. Is it me, or does it look like they are stacking their decks?

It isn't just a particular table I am seeing this happen either. I have been there a few times, back counted tables and watched as the dealers would rip 5 card 21's in huge positive counts.

The thing is if I report them Id on't want to blow my cover. would I remain anonymous?

 

[sagefr0g]

What is my course of action on this?

I have four casinos nearby. One of them is a dump I'll admit, but I'm hitting them all to keep from getting too familiar, ifyou know what I mean.

All offer double deck games, which is what I normally play. The shoe games at the others are 6 decks, but this one is 8.

I have backcounted their tables several times and I will see runnings counts of +50 (Mentor count -- 2 level system similar to Zen) after 3 decks have been played at and still see flurries of small cards coming out. Is it me, or does it look like they are stacking their decks?

It isn't just a particular table I am seeing this happen either. I have been there a few times, back counted tables and watched as the dealers would rip 5 card 21's in huge positive counts.

The thing is if I report them Id on't want to blow my cover. would I remain anonymous?

i don't think you've allowed enough observation to make a judgement. i've been playing a lot of cvbj six deck lately and it's not all that uncommon to see a flurry of low cards continue to come out when you have a high positive count. i'd just continue to watch them.

 

[RJT]

You need to keep an eye on this. Sagefrog's right, you haven't done nearly enough observation yet to make a judgement as to whether or not they are cheating, but if you keep watching and time after time night after night their games are ending on high positive count, walk away and don't go back. I still wouldn't say for certain, but if you are regularly seeing excessively high positive counts it is concievable that they are shorting the shoe. It is possible that you can make an anonymous phone call to the gaming commision, but don't be too hopeful. Another option would been to ask them to spread the shoe for you, then check the cards when they are all face up.

RJT.

 

[Preston]

i don't think you've allowed enough observation to make a judgement. i've been playing a lot of cvbj six deck lately and it's not all that uncommon to see a flurry of low cards continue to come out when you have a high positive count. i'd just continue to watch them.

cvbj?

This is not something I saw just once. I have observed stuff like this happening on three different "visits" and happening on multiple tables during those visits. I would have shrugged it off had it not been happening consisently.

It could just be coincidence, but I will not sit down at the shoe tables after observing all this.

 

[RJT]

Casino Verite Blackjack - Qfit's software. Excellent stuff.
As i said, it will take more than a few nights of observation and try to do as much of it as possible on 1 table.

RJT.

 

[EasyRhino]

Having a count get high, and then "spike" even farther isn't that crazy an idea. However, if you watch through the entire shoe, you'll probably want to see at least half of these shoes start to correct towards a neutral count. If you're not watching through the end of the shoe, fuggeddaboutit.

 

[Preston]

Having a count get high, and then "spike" even farther isn't that crazy an idea. However, if you watch through the entire shoe, you'll probably want to see at least half of these shoes start to correct towards a neutral count. If you're not watching through the end of the shoe, fuggeddaboutit.

That's my point. It's not unusual to see a count go extreme in either direction, but usually it starts to level off toward zero.. and this wasn't happening. I might take a small pad of paper and keep track of a few shoes next time I'm there.

 

[halcyon1234]

That's my point. It's not unusual to see a count go extreme in either direction, but usually it starts to level off toward zero.. and this wasn't happening. I might take a small pad of paper and keep track of a few shoes next time I'm there.

I was just about to reccomend that-- but you might want to be subtle about it. Pretend you are studing a BS chart or something. If you actually have a pad of paper with the hands dealt (or running tally of ranks + suit dealt), AND they are cheating, I'm sure they'll bounce you. If you're just marking up a BS chart (by putting a tick by the 5 everytime a 5 comes out... ), then who are they to know.

Also, you might not want to track EVERY card. I believe it's 5's and 6's that an abundance of are the most damaging to players (if anyone can confirm this?). So keep track of just those. If you ever see more than 8 of any one of those cards (of the same suit), bang, they're cheating.

HOWEVER, they might also be stripping cards out of the deck. How many aces do you see (since again, I believe those are the most Player Friendly cards-- again, please correct me if I'm wrong, guys). If they're dealing out 6/8 decks, and you aren't seeing an average of 24 aces over multiple shoes-- suspicious.

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that if they are cheating, they're doing BOTH of the above. If they just took out cards or just put in cards, the deck wouldn't look like an 8 card deck. So they've probably (if they are cheating) taken out an equal number of aces and put in an equal number of 5/6s.

The question becomes, what to do if you suspect they are cheating? Either leave, leave, leave-- or take note of the exact time and date that you saw the proof in the pudding. (IE: the 9'th 5 of Spades). Note which table it was on. Then call whichever gaming commission runs your joints. If you've managed to see TWO 9th cards, even better, since it wouldn't just be a "mistaken count". Have the comission review the tapes. (Annonymously, btw ).

OR just sit at the table, don't play, but start sidebetting with people. "I'll bet you that between your hand and the dealer's hand, you'll see a A, or you won't see a 5 or 6, even money". With the odds stacked, you'll make a killing. =)

If the casino asks what you're doing, just say that you're market testing a new "Cheating Fucks" sidebet. THEN run. hehehe.

 

[halcyon1234]

PS: And then log on and let Xfiles say "told you so". =)

 

[NDN21]

What

How about spill a beer on the cards?

They would have to get rid of those cards and replace them with fresh ones.

 

[ScottH]

How about spill a beer on the cards?

They would have to get rid of those cards and replace them with fresh ones.

Make sure it's an "accident", because I think that is illegal to do that intentionally.

 

[mdlbj]

This does not make any sense, if they are letting a player cut the cards... Know what im saying?