What is the value of these new APC coupons?

zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
What is the value of these new APC coupons? An analysis, please? zg

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(Dead link: http://casinoperks.com/booklet_gamingdiningcombopack.htm)
CasinoPerks - Alternate/Play Certificates

Alternate/Play Certificates (APC) are similar to standard Match Play certificates in that they both pay odds on your bet, if you win. Some Alternate Play Certificates pay 2 to 1, others pay 3 to 2. Be sure to read the odds on the certificates before you use them.

Some APC's require that you make one regular bet before using them. Other APC's require that you make two regular bets before using them. PRIOR to using the APC, please check the restrictions printed on the certificate. In ALL cases, the regular bet(s) (second or third) must be equal to the dollar value printed on the certificate.

Prior to making your initial bet, you must first place your (APC) on the table and advise the dealer that you intend to use it on your second or third bet. The following is your guide to the restrictions and odds on our APC's:

REQUIRE ONE REGULAR BET PRIOR TO USING AND PAY 2 TO 1 ODDS:

"Key Largo", "Stardust" and "Terribles" (each pays two to one odds)

REQUIRE TWO REGULAR BETS PRIOR TO USING AND PAY 3 TO 2 ODDS:

"Slots A Fun", "Arizona Charlies" (Boulder) and "Arizona Charlies's" (Decatur)
 
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phantom007

Well-Known Member
Not sold to Nevada Residents???.....

I suspect, ZG, that this a trick question.

In the past, when I have posted that something has a +0.0007295% advantage, you sir have quickly and CORRECTLY pointed out that the advantage was actually +0.0007186! Why do you ask the value of these?

Now, you ask the advantage of APC coupons, which one can obtain AFTER paying $45. to get them, then spend about $400. (as a Tourist) in Taxi-fare to bounce around to multiple stores, so as to maybe win your ONE-TIME 3:2 or 2:1 pay-off?

Certain Coupons....those sent out by Stores, LV Advisor, and the like, are likely "redeemable"....how do we know that these are legit?

In this age of computers, my 19 year-old "Computer Arts" major son could likely duplicate in minutes, most any "coupon" that does not have "imbedded" safety features.....as could my 14 y.o. daughter, who has not yet been to college.

ZG, if I am wrong, and these APC's are valuable, please send me $100. cash. I will then buy you $45 worth of these coupons, and pocket the rest for S&H!

GRIN!

ph.007.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Easy-peasey!

Just wait for a plus count, play the required hands at an advantage, then play the coupon. Even if the count tanks during the required hands the coupon will still give you an extra advantage on the last hand.

The cumulative advantage will depend on how many hands you have to play prior to using the coupon and what TC you are playing at. I suspect that the penalty from playing 1-2 "warm-up" hands will not lower the coupon's value very much if you play it cleverly.

-Sonny-
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
An answer and a request -

"Now, you ask the advantage of APC coupons, which one can obtain AFTER paying $45. to get them, then spend about $400. (as a Tourist) in Taxi-fare to bounce around to multiple stores, so as to maybe win your ONE-TIME 3:2 or 2:1 pay-off?"
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I am able to get 10 books (50+ coupons) for next to nothing.

My request is that someone analyze the EV value of the two types of coupons described. zg
 
LV Bear

LV Bear

Administrator
Quick approximation

The "pays 2 to 1" coupon is worth about 47% of face value, the "pays 3 to 2" coupon is worth about 23% of face value. In other words, a $10 "pays 2 to 1" is worth $4.70, a $10 "pays 3 to 2" is worth $2.30. The EV of the coupon is only slightly reduced by the extra play requirements, because of the negligible expected loss on the hands you must play to be able to use the coupons. You still have a huge advantage with the coupons.

The real question is are the face amounts high enough to justify investing the time, cost, and effort to run through them. This will, of course, differ for each person.
 
LV Bear

LV Bear

Administrator
Slight disagreement

Just wait for a plus count, play the required hands at an advantage, then play the coupon.

My approach would be to quickly play them off the top of the deck and move on. The expected loss on the required hands is so insignificant so as not to be worth wasting time back counting a game, and risking annoying the pit and/or the ploppies. This is particually important if you want to churn many coupons through the same pit without being noticed.
 
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gross

Member
2 to 1 blackjack

I played at the Riveria briefly last week. A guy at my table used a 2 for 1 on the first blackjack coupon that he said came from the LV Adviser. The coupon simply stayed on the table until he got the next blackjack (max 25$ bet). After several 25$ bets he collected his $50 snapper (+ his 25$ bet of course). Losses didn't take the coupon off the table. I assume they expect most users to lose most of those 25$ bets before cashing the coupon. Nice coupon in my opinion.
 
V

V-man

Active Member
2-1 coupon

Let's say you bet $10 per hand and play until you get the snapper. On average, you get BJ once every 21 rounds, so you have played around 20 hands at a BS house edge which is approximately .5%. 20 hands * $10 = $200 wagered, which translated to a loss of $1.00 (-0.5%), but since you got the snapper, which normally paying you $15 now pays you $20, your actual EV is $4 ($5 - $1), $4 profits from $200 wagered is 2% EV.
Usually, I play a couple of hands after the snapper and see if the count is negative, I dunk.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
NOT "match-play" - "APC"

Some Alternate Play Certificates pay 2 to 1, others pay 3 to 2. Be sure to read the odds on the certificates before you use them.

Some APC's require that you make one regular bet before using them. Other APC's require that you make two regular bets before using them. PRIOR to using the APC, please check the restrictions printed on the certificate. In ALL cases, the regular bet(s) (second or third) must be equal to the dollar value printed on the certificate.

Prior to making your initial bet, you must first place your (APC) on the table and advise the dealer that you intend to use it on your second or third bet.
 
LV Bear

LV Bear

Administrator
You must play the required preliminary hands to be able to use the coupon

After the play of the required preliminary hands, the 2 to 1 coupon is exactly like a match play. The 3 to 2 coupon is a cheap version of a match play, where your bet is matched by an extra half bet.

If my understanding is incorrect, my approximate value may also be incorrect. Please advise.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
I haven't seen one yet...

...but my inyerpretation was that the coupon provides a bonus payoff... I guess that's the same as a matchplay. zg
 
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