What order to learn counting

[Dyepaintball12]

Hey guys.

Me and my friend are going to start seriously learning to count, and I am wondering the best way to go at chronologically.

Should it go:

1. Practice counting down decks
2. Learn how much to bet at what count
3. Learn the deviations

??

We will be learning the Advanced Red 7 Count by Arnold Snyder as of right now.


Thanks guys,

David

 

[shadroch]

I don't see why 1 and 2 can't be done at the same time.#2 is much easier.

 

[zengrifter]

Can we assume that you have BS down COLD?

I would tend to recommend KISS-III over Red7 (Black2 instead) because Fred Renzey is a regular contributor to this forum and answers questions quickly on the fly. zg

 

[EasyRhino]

If learning BS is assumed to be an implicit Step Zero, then yeah, that sounds about right.

... and the proportional betting is definitely worth some "classroom" practice. I tried to do it in the casino without much practice, and it was a lot tougher than I thought it would be (keeping track of the count while figuring the bet was kind of tricky)

 

[moo321]

Basic Strategy is more important that counting. A solid basic strategy player who miscounts a lot will do better than a perfect counter who occasionally makes basic strategy errors.

 

[shadroch]

Basic Strategy is more important that counting. A solid basic strategy player who miscounts a lot will do better than a perfect counter who occasionally makes basic strategy errors.

That would depend on many things.A solid BS player who consistantly puts out big bets in negative counts will not do better than the counter who misplays the occasional close play.There are many BS plays that are either so close,or occur so rarely that your scenerio can't be correct.
Perfect BS is a losing game. Increasing your bets in negative counts on a regular basis will destroy a player.

 

[jack.jackson]

Hey guys.

Me and my friend are going to start seriously learning to count, and I am wondering the best way to go at chronologically.

Should it go:

1. Practice counting down decks
2. Learn how much to bet at what count
3. Learn the deviations

??

We will be learning the Advanced Red 7 Count by Arnold Snyder as of right now.


Thanks guys,

David

Alot, of counters are in a hurry to move on, to fast, to quckly.
For example, they have a natural tendency to overbet on borderline counts.
Its the same perverse genius that tells us just because its close, it must be right! The ones who take short cuts, thinking they fell into a stwarberry patch or a field of gold, are usually the ones that wont succeed. Discipline precedes talent. Patience will be key, in your quest for success.
A critical step in card counting, thats often not placed enough emphasis on is learning the two card combinations. Most beginers are to eager to move on to the running total, before they've learned there two card combinations down cold. Once youve learned your two card combo's down to a exact science. Only then do you have the recipe to be a lightinng fast and successful counter for the future!
JOKE__________________________________________________
Q: Did you hear the tragedy about the ethiopian that fell in the crocodile pit????

A: He ate eighteen of them, before they could get him out.:joker:

 

[Mimosine]

1. Practice counting down decks
2. Learn how much to bet at what count
3. Learn the deviations

Know BS perfectly for the game/s you will be playing.

practice counting down decks multiple ways; 1 card at a time, 2 cards at a time, 3 cards at a time. it can be boring so mix it up, challenge your brain. buy a cheap digital timer or download one for your computer and use it. keep a log of how fast and how accurate you are. i bought 1, 2, and 6 matching decks of used casino cards on ebay for cheap. often i count down 6 decks in a row, keeping track of accuracy and timing.

practice dealing out 3 hands plus the dealer, while keeping the count and making perfect BS plays. at this stage start making mental notes as to how much you should be betting based on the count. Keep the count the whole time - be able to add up your hands, play out the dealers hands, determine which hands won and lost, while keeping the count. if you're really slow at this, that is ok. aim for precision.

continue to practice these 2 general schemes and start incorporating index deviations while dealing out hands. make sure to drill the index plays in your head first with flash cards or other memorization techniques so that as you deal out hands you don't need to look them up.

a lot of people use simulators for all this, alas i have a mac so i've relied solely on using physical cards for practice which has worked out just fine for me.

 

[NDN21]

What order

Learn what rules to avoid or which rules are better than others, ie H17 vs S17. You can improve your game alot by just avoiding bad games.

Basic strategy DOWN COLD is next. Practice bs until you can get every hand without even thinking about it. When you are counting cards your mind will be busy making adjustments due to constantly changing values upon which you make your calculations. BS is the one thing that will be a constant and should be memorized to the point that you can make the correct decision instantly.

With those two things alone you can minimize the house advantage right there.

 

[golfnut101]

Learn what rules to avoid or which rules are better than others, ie H17 vs S17. You can improve your game alot by just avoiding bad games.

So is H17 with good pen worse than S17 with poor-mediocre pen ? Lets not overlook the importance of penetration.

 

[iwantblackjack]

That would depend on many things.A solid BS player who consistantly puts out big bets in negative counts will not do better than the counter who misplays the occasional close play.There are many BS plays that are either so close,or occur so rarely that your scenerio can't be correct. Perfect BS is a losing game. Increasing your bets in negative counts on a regular basis will destroy a player.

Shadrock's right! A 100% BS is a losing game. And s/he can lose even in what appears to be positive counts (when they only base their count decisions on the last 2 hands where few 10's/pics shown), and in negative counts, and can also lose in flat bettings.

Know BS perfectly for the game/s you will be playing. practice counting down decks multiple ways; 1 card at a time, 2 cards at a time, 3 cards at a time. it can be boring so mix it up, challenge your brain. buy a cheap digital timer or download one for your computer and use it. keep a log of how fast and how accurate you are. i bought 1, 2, and 6 matching decks of used casino cards on ebay for cheap. often i count down 6 decks in a row, keeping track of accuracy and timing. ....Keep the count the whole time - be able to add up your hands, play out the dealers hands, determine which hands won and lost, while keeping the count. if you're really slow at this, that is ok. aim for precision. continue to practice these 2 general schemes and start incorporating index deviations while dealing out hands. make sure to drill the index plays in your head first with flash cards or other memorization techniques so that as you deal out hands you don't need to look them up.

While your out this practice, maybe you can even apply for a job as a 21-dealer part-time. You' may be better off than some dealers you'll meet. (j/k) Definitely practice.

 

[sagefr0g]

Alot, of counters are in a hurry to move on, to fast, to quckly.
For example, they have a natural tendency to overbet on borderline counts.
Its the same perverse genius that tells us just because its close, it must be right! The ones who take short cuts, thinking they fell into a stwarberry patch or a field of gold, are usually the ones that wont succeed. Discipline precedes talent. Patience will be key, in your quest for success.
.....

i'm finding this especially true with my attempt at 'fuzzy' counting. the other side of the coin is playing it to conservatively when the time is right.