Which AP move do you think is the most profitable

[Thunder]

Let's assume you go into a random casino where you don't know the dealers and you have 5 hours to play. The BJ games are 8 deck 80% pen S17 NRSA DOA shoe games and there are 6-5 single deck BJ games as well but the dealer does not deal the hole card until all table decisions have been made. When I say profitable, I mean which one if you had 5 hours to play, are you most likely to leave the casino with the greatest amount of money.

I know what I would vote for, but I'm curious to see what others think.
Attempting to HC (doesn't have to be just BJ)
Scavenger playing
STing
Ace sequencing
card counting
Slot Machine hunting (a certain member of this board would know about this)
Controlled dice rolling in craps
Other

 

[Nynefingers]

I would say it could be HC, slots, ST, or counting, pretty much in that order. If I've got 5 hours, I'm going to scout out my options. If I'm counting, I'm going to try to make scavenger plays at the same time. I've never attempted to play a game solely based on scavenger play. For me, its just something I take advantage of whenever the opportunity arises during other play, although if I saw someone betting huge and giving lots of opportunities to get scavenger plays, then I might consider focusing on that. I don't have any experience with sequencing, so I don't really know what shuffles are vulnerable to that yet. I also don't know how to size my bets, etc. That would be towards the middle of my list if I could do it. Regardless, if I have 5 hours, I'm not going to sit down at the first +EV game I find unless it is hugely +EV, to the point of almost certainly being the best game in the house.

 

[Jack_Black]

counting to me is now a grind. at least you can do it at most places, but I expect to spend more than 5 hours before turning a profit. If this place you are hypothetically speaking was an AP playground, ie, has a few flashers, trackable shuffles, +ev machines, etc. I would say ace tracking, shuffletracking the shoe, then HC. reasons being, Ace tracking gives you a 51% advantage, and if the shuffle procedures are easy, then it means that every dealer for 5 hours will give you ace tracking opportunities. Of course this holds true for tracking the shoe. Now I picked HC last because I just can't imagine every dealer for 5 hours flashing you. even a 100% flasher would only be beneficial for the 20-30 minutes she's assigned to your table.

Machines need "conditions" before they are playable, which means you can't play it for 5 hours straight.

I have also lost a lot of faith in AP craps as of late.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The highest and most repeatable advantages come from scavenger play, but that requires a lot of social engineering skills. If you're an attractive girl who is good at math (I know, I know...) that will probably work best, especially if you have a meretricious streak.

The HC opportunities in the store you describe will probably be few and of the low-EV variety. The tracking and sequencing value is totally dependent on the casino procedures, as is the ability to exploit promotions. I've yet to be convinced of dice control. Best to be a good counter.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

the 20-30 minutes she's assigned to your table.

This is not the norm. Are you referring to a particular place, or do you make it a point to only play relief dealers?

And I agree with AM: at a place with those procedures on 6:5, you may not find HC to be as profitable as it might be at other places, even on other games.

 

[blackchipjim]

Profitable

If I go to a joint cold and find a good game I sit down play with a big spread with little regard to banning or camoflage. It would have to be in a place that I may never visit again or years later. If it's in an area that I feel the cumalitve IQ may not be as high as the tempeture outside I will hit the vp area to see the pay tables and play.:laugh:

 

[Jack_Black]

This is not the norm. Are you referring to a particular place, or do you make it a point to only play relief dealers?

how is that not the norm? I've only played vegas and a few other states, but every place I've seen, the dealers in the pit have an interval table change. Sometimes I see craps dealers staying only on craps but rotating around the craps table, but all other table dealers change. I was told they do it to keep the mind fresh, and thwart incorrect payouts and procedures.

am I missing something?

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

how is that not the norm? I've only played vegas and a few other states, but every place I've seen, the dealers in the pit have an interval table change. Sometimes I see craps dealers staying only on craps but rotating around the craps table, but all other table dealers change. I was told they do it to keep the mind fresh, and thwart incorrect payouts and procedures.

am I missing something?

While I've certainly seen this, the norm is for a dealer to be assigned to a particular game and work an 8-hour shift consisting either of a 60-minute shift followed by a 20-minute break or a 40-minute shift followed by a 20-minute break. Dealers usually switch games on a daily basis at bigger places, but it's not usual that they switch during the same day at most.

 

[21forme]

I've seen plenty of places with 20 or 30 minute dealer rotations, and the casinos change things from time to time.

For example, Jack_Black and I walked through a place recently that currently has 20 minute rotations. For several months, earlier this year, they used a 1 hour rotation, but then switched back to 20 minutes.

 

[Machinist]

your all right

Its different for all casinos...i've seen all dealer rotations....from 30 min to 1:40....

Machinist

 

[Sonny]

Dealers usually switch games on a daily basis at bigger places, but it's not usual that they switch during the same day at most.

And don't forget about the dealers that return to the next table (clockwise) after each break. Trying to keep up with them can be dizzying! I've seen that in SoCal and some Vegas strip casinos. It took me a while to figure it out too.

-Sonny-

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Yeah, I've seen that table rotation thing, the 20-minute shifts, the 30-minute shifts, etc. My original comment to Jack Black was that none of these are the norm, and unless you're talking about a specific place (I'm assuming the local game for JB and 21forme might qualify), I'd assume the standard 60/20, which prevails in Vegas, AC, and many other places.

Incidentally, I once made a decision to play a relief dealer at 3 different tables before eventually deciding it looked absurd and taking off. It took some discipline...

 

[Canceler]

And don't forget about the dealers that return to the next table (clockwise) after each break. Trying to keep up with them can be dizzying!

Instead of sitting down at the table my favorite dealer was at, I sat at the table she was going to be at.

 

[Zero]

Incidentally, I once made a decision to play a relief dealer at 3 different tables before eventually deciding it looked absurd and taking off. It took some discipline...

I've seen ploppies follow an attractive female relief dealer around like this. So if the dealer is female (don't worry about the attractive part, no one will judge you on your tastes), you can follow her from table to table chatting her up and making it seem like you're just flirting.

0

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I've seen ploppies follow an attractive female relief dealer around like this. So if the dealer is female (don't worry about the attractive part, no one will judge you on your tastes), you can follow her from table to table chatting her up and making it seem like you're just flirting.

0

Use caution when following a particular dealer for any reason that goes beyond counting. If collusion is suspected you could both end up under arrest.

You also want to be careful about tipping "useful" dealers. One way a dealer can guarantee not getting a tip from me, is to make a mistake in my favor.

 

[zengrifter]

I clicked scavenger, in theory, but cOMP-counting should have been on the list too. zg

 

[tensplitter]

Ace tracking/shuffle tracking is the most profitable. The player edge for betting big when an ace is coming is 51%. The player edge for steering a 10 to the dealer is 30%. Scavenging double downs is a variable player edge, but scavenging a 16 vs 11 double down is worth 8.3% as you're a 6 to 5 favorite to win. The player edge for holecarding is about 10% every time you see the hole card. Controlled shooting in craps can provide an 8% edge if you're very good at it. Card counting is about 1.5% average. Finally, hustling for comps at a slot or video poker machine is less than .5%, and you likely won't get your advantage in cash.
Unless you just know that you will hit a royal flush or the progressive, which is impossible without knowing the source code to the random number generator to figure the exact millisecond in which the RNG will spit out the number that corresponds to the jackpot, and then you play it at exactly that millisecond. If you figure at least 10 milliseconds per day that correspond to the jackpot and pull it at every single opportunity, you have a high chance of hitting the jackpot taking reaction time variance into account. That's a huge player advantage.

 

[Machinist]

Hoooboy!!!

Now this opens a small can of worms. So many variables...... Man.........where to start!!!!!
All of the forms of AP have their place in time. I have made nice coin from 5 dollar slot machines. I have made it from 1$ VP 5 play with a nice sized team, playing for cash and cars. 1$ single line vp progressives of years gone by have been fantastic, although they were the best with f***ked up meters on them. Never could stomach 5$ single line VP. Video BJ with a healthy cash back card...excellent money...
I can see where card counting under certain conditions with large amounts of cash run across the table is great. Shuffle tracking is great with the right conditions and people. H/cing with the right games and right conditions are excellent .
Scavenging .........havent be involved much in that so no experience. Coupons were good years ago.
I understand the question ....but so many variables to take into consideration. I know for me what is the best at this point in time. But that can change in a heart beat , in the next casino.
It truely boils down to money run across a table or machine. The size of a bankroll will limit what can be the best AP play "for you " at any given time.
There is a certain person on this site that makes excellent money with online casinos.
Interesting poll though.

Machinist

 

[Jack_Black]

I think the OP is talking about a hypothetical situation. Or maybe the discussion would be better focused if the topic was treated in this way:

If you were at a casino for 5 hours that was an AP's playground, i.e. had every type of AP opportunity available to you, which would you play to make the most of your time in 5 hours? of course, the question would also assume that you possess the skills to take advantage of every type of play. So with that in mind, what is the most profitable type of play for a 5 hour session?

I just learned about dealer warp play the other day, I think that should be added to the poll.

P.S. I also know of a store that has almost every type of AP opportunity available on the floor! I about pissed my pants when realized how vulnerable the whole place was. sorry, can't say where.

 

[Machinist]

I think the OP is talking about a hypothetical situation. Or maybe the discussion would be better focused if the topic was treated in this way:

If you were at a casino for 5 hours that was an AP's playground, i.e. had every type of AP opportunity available to you, which would you play to make the most of your time in 5 hours? of course, the question would also assume that you possess the skills to take advantage of every type of play. So with that in mind, what is the most profitable type of play for a 5 hour session?

I just learned about dealer warp play the other day, I think that should be added to the poll.

P.S. I also know of a store that has almost every type of AP opportunity available on the floor! I about pissed my pants when realized how vulnerable the whole place was. sorry, can't say where.

With this in mind???? I'd pickpocket you!!!:whip::whip:
Kinda like a box of chocolates eh???? Ma;ybe taste them all???

Machinist