Which counting system?

N

newbie

Well-Known Member
hi, i'm a newbie who's ready to take up CC. the only book i have read is Wong's Profession Blackjack and thus the only system i know is the hi-lo...

now my question is that which system should i take up? according to www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm , K-O is superior(than hi-lo) in all aspects (BC, PE, IC) and it's even easier to use!!! i'm willing to work on any system even the level 2 or 3 system. it's just that i would like to pick one and stick with it. I'd like to know which one is better in your opinions...

maybe i should also provide my playing conditions...i usually have access to mediocre 6D, liberal rules (indian casino)...from time to time i would go up to reno and have access to great SD game with good rules...

i've been following the message board for about a month and learn a lot. i'm sure you guys have answered lots of similar questions and i would like to thank you all for bearing with me!

Newbie
 
P

phantom007

Well-Known Member
Check out QFIT's.........

Blackjack Strategy Analyzer. With same, you can enter/indicate you various skills and abilities, such as math skills, ability to keep a side-count, etc., and BJSA will calculate the CC'ing System best for YOU. And it is free...well not totally...you have to look at some ads for CV software, which you eventually should get as well.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with HiLo, or with the KO that you mentioned. Both are in common use, so easy to get data and peer input from others. In Wong's PBJ, he states something to the effect of "most any counting system that accurately tracks big vs. little" will get you the $.

Certainly, other systems may grind out higher win rates, but ONLY if played perfectly, or nearly so. Level I's are very forgiving if you miss a card or two.

I personally use AOII for SD and DD, and often same without Ace-side count for 6D, or if lazy, will flip to a simple Level I (Revere Systematic aka Silver Fox) when playing shoes.

However, many of the "Big $ Pro's" are HiLo players.

Hope this helps some. Feel free to post more questions.

phantom007
 
N

newbie

Well-Known Member
lv 1 for 6-8D and lv 2-3 for 1-2D?

thanks.

after studying a bit it seems to me like hi-lo or k-o is better for shoe games while lv2 or lv3 is better for 1-2D. is this true?
 
I

Inskipp

Member
Re: lv 1 for 6-8D and lv 2-3 for 1-2D?

I suggest Red7 instead of KO. KO does better only in S17 good penetration, and that is rare today. Also R7 provides a more cover because of its releative rarity.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
If you are willing to learn a sidecount and some powerful indexes, consider Hi-Opt II with the Ace sidecount. No matter what you decide to go with, all counts can benefit from an Ace sidecount, even if you only use it for insurance adjustment.

Another very powerful one for shoe games is Wong Halves.
 
M

MrPill

Well-Known Member
Red 7 Count

Inskipp Wrote: "Also R7 provides a more cover because of its releative rarity."

How does this provide more cover?

I have used Red 7 for quite a few years as a advanced casual player and have found it to be very easy to use (and profitable) in the 6 & 8 deck shoes.

You do loose something in the single deck games though due to the fact that it approximates a TC. This has more of an effect in SD (as opposed to multideck games) which are much more sensitive to count based play changes.

If you can find a copy of Blackbelt in Blackjack (out of print) by Arnold Snyder, this count is in there.

Good Luck,
Pill
 
P

phantom007

Well-Known Member
For SD only......

wherein Play deviations are as or more important then Betting, a multilevel with a high PE/PC is likely best....for 4+ decks, wherein counts rarely reach zones where one makes major play changes, then BE/BC is MOST important, so a level I is just fine.

For DD only, I also prefer a Multilevel, since definately in deeply dealt games, and often in "standard" games, play changes seem to occur frequently...but this is just my preference....the "math" would indicate that DD should be played more like 6D.

phantom007.
 
N

newbie

Well-Known Member
thanks for all the responses

where can i find a good reference to ace side count? i imagine that ace sidecount should work with all systems although indices for play decision would probably change

thanks
 
I

Inskipp

Member
Re: Red 7 Count

Counts do not produce identical decision at every point. If casino counting and watching you, they use hilo or KO, and so sometimes they think you made a mistake because of slight differences in systems.
 
M

MrPill

Well-Known Member
Re: Edition III on its Way

Hey Rob,

Edition 3 of Blackbelt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder?

I had heard rumors but have not actually seen anything on this. Where did you see this?

Thanks,
Pill
 
J

john

Well-Known Member
In my opinion, if you are new to counting, you should stick with a count that is ace reckoned. Concentrate first on playing with no errors and wonging in and out at the proper times. In my opinion, the gains from those two things will be much larger than including an ace side count.
 
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