Which out of these games are the best

[blackjacksquirrel]

One of the casinos I like to go to has two different kind of 21 games.
the basic rules are the same only one is a 4d and one is a 6d.
The only differences is that the 6d allowes you to double down on 3cards and the 4d has some special bonuses.

suited 7-7-7 20 to one
unsuited 7-7-7 5 to one*
suited 6-7-8 10 to one
unsuited 6-7-8 2 to one*
7 card 21 5 to one
6 card 21 3 to one
5card 21 2 to one

*I am not completly sure about these but they should either be that or higher.

So far I have mostly been playing the 4d game since I find it easier keep track of the count in this one. Just wondering which game is the best to play?

editconfused: clumsy me :joker: wrong section. could someone pleas move this to the general thread.

 

[KenSmith]

Message moved.

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

Thanks . soeey for the trouble

Ok I was able to check the exact bonuses and they are:

suited 7-7-7 20 to 1
unsuited 7-7-7 5 to 1
suited 6-7-8 5 to 1
unsuited 6-7-8 3 to 1
7 card 21 5 to 1
6 card 21 3 to 1
5card 21 2 to 1

They get paid right away so unless the dealer get 21 or a BJ you will get paid again .

 

[shadroch]

Are these a seperate bonus that involves an extra bet?
I've never seen a game that pays you twice for one bet,has anyone?

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

There is no extra bet. The bonus is paid on the original bet
If I am betting 5 dollar and get a unsuited 6-7-8 i will first get 15 dollar right away. if the dealer doesn't get 21 i will be paid 5 more like normal when you win a hand.
It is a great bonus, I am just not sure if it is good enough to outvalue double on 3 cards.

 

[MGP]

For the 4D game assuming S17 DAS DOA NS SPL3 +Bonuses I get:

TD: 0.952216770450848%
CD: 1.01364474914075%

For the 6D game assuming S17 DAS DOA DAN NS SPL3 I get (DAN is double any number - so even more than 3 cards):

TD: -0.176854745698423%
CD: -0.173999895420685%

I.e. it's no brainer...

If you post the complete set of rules I can give you the actual EV's if the rules differ...

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

ok these are the rest of the rules that are the same for both games.

H17
DoA
DAS,
no surrender against ace otherwise early surrender.
resplit to 4 hands(even aces, but you only get one card to each ace)
no hole card, but lose original bet only.*
blackjackpay 3 to 2

In the 6 deck game you can double on 3 cards but not more.
in the 4d you have the bonuses. it also has under/13/over bets and insurence on dealer 10.

This is actually better than a holecard game where the dealer checks for BJ since you can get paid for the bonus even if the dealer get a BJ

 

[shadroch]

I realize its not a lot of hands to base things on, but in approx. 5 hours of playing at the only table I've played that allowed DD on multiple cards,I got two hands that called for it.Deal yourself out a few decks and you'll see how uncommon it is.
While the bonus hands are also pretty rare,the double payous appear to make it a much better game.

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

yeah I kind of suspected that. still I wanted it confirmed. Unless therewas a BIG difference in advantage i would probably still try to play the 4d game even if it was alittle less good than the 6d since it is easier and more interesting to count.

 

[MGP]

4D with bonuses (The ES10 balances the H17):

TD: 0.928334513020698%
CD: 0.997881835389521%

Note that I didn't include any payoffs against BJ because if I make it ENHC then it would effect my CA calcs for doubles and splits and my CA won't apply the play through a BJ hand probably (it does ok for non-BJ hands though) - so the EV is actually higher...

I didn't bother with the 6D game.

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

Thanks alot for your help . just one more question. What is the difference between TD and CD? I don't really understand exactly what they mean.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I realize its not a lot of hands to base things on, but in approx. 5 hours of playing at the only table I've played that allowed DD on multiple cards,I got two hands that called for it.Deal yourself out a few decks and you'll see how uncommon it is.
While the bonus hands are also pretty rare,the double payous appear to make it a much better game.

Nonetheless double-any-number is a damned good rule. I play a lot of Spanish 21 and it comes up a bit. One point is that the rule does change Basic Strategy (and index plays) for a game. It also slightly increases the EOR for the ace because you will be playing more profitable soft doubles.

Those bonus hands should also change playing strategies for the game. I'd guess that hit 76 vs. 2 would now be called for, as well as more hitting on 4 card hands.

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

Those bonus hands should also change playing strategies for the game. I'd guess that hit 76 vs. 2 would now be called for, as well as more hitting on 4 card hands.

What kind of BS changes are you talking about exactly. I have heard before that the changes would only bring so little that it isn't realy worth changing it. why would BS for DD on three cards change compared to DD on two cards. does the card compositon in a mulit-deck game really change that much with one extra card.

 

[MGP]

TD is Total Dependent and CD is Composition Dependent. With such a small difference between the 2 it probably isn't worth memorizing any exceptions except those based on the bonuses.

 

[blackjacksquirrel]

Thanks alot for all your help.
so if I understand this correct I should have an advantage just by playing BS . What kind of changes would i need to make to BS because of the bonuses?