Which QFIT products suit my needs?

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Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
As the thread title says, I am interested in purchasing blackjack software, but I don't know quite what I need.

I am a rank beginner, currently with just under 20 hours of experience counting in casinos. I come from a poker background, so I have a good grasp of the magnitude of the bankroll variation I will experience and the mental side of dealing with that. I am also an engineer and a former online casino bonus-whore, so I am comfortable with the math and statistics side of blackjack too. I feel that I am fairly well suited for counting.

I currently am playing in the games available locally with a score in the 25-30 range, which with my small bankroll, doesn't allow for a great win-rate. Once I get comfortable with counting, I may consider adding to my bankroll (from earnings from my real job) and/or traveling to find better games, but in the meantime, counting is something I enjoy and I do have a positive expectation, so I'm happy with where I am.

From the descriptions I have read, it sounds like I at least need CVBJ for practice and drills. My confusion is mostly over what else I need. I would like to be able to calculate optimal betting ramps, expected results, standard deviations, risk of ruin, etc. under a number of game conditions conditions and betting conditions. I found some of this data while reading Modern Blackjack, but I'd like to explore the variables in more detail as they apply to my local games. Ideally, I would also like to be able to do those things with a custom side bet, so when I find those rare side bets with a built-in player edge or side bets that are beatable by counting, I can accurately simulate those conditions and recalculate the optimal betting ramps, etc.

Will CVBJ and CVCX do everything I want to do? What is the difference between CVCX and CVData? Anything I'm overlooking? Will any of these products allow simulations or calculations involving shared bankroll situations?

Thank you for your help!
 
StandardDeviant

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
I recommend getting CVBJ + CVCX + CVData. You could consider CVData optional and/or get it later. It provides (a great deal) more flexibility in simulating game situations than CVCX.

IMHO, these tools will pay for themselves many times over. All serious players should have them or something equivalent.
 
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Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
What specifically will CVData do for me that CVCX won't? I've read the product descriptions, but there is a lot of information there and I don't really know what I need at this point. I am currently working with a high-low count, spreading 1-10 or 1-12, around a half-dozen indices so far. Nothing too unusual. At this point, the only thing unusual about the games I am playing are going to be various promotional things, such as a side bet I had the pleasure of playing this weekend that offered a nice positive EV even for a basic strategy player. The side bet was $0.50 and paid $10 for a blackjack, $25 for a suited blackjack, and various progressive amounts for other hands, such as 678, 777, etc. Even with the minimum amounts for each progressive ($100), the return was about $1 for each $0.50 side bet. The only downside is that I had to play 2 hands of 2 units in order to make one side bet per round. Will CVCX allow me to recalculate my optimal betting ramps for a given ROR under these circumstances?
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
Nynefingers said:
What specifically will CVData do for me that CVCX won't? I've read the product descriptions, but there is a lot of information there and I don't really know what I need at this point. I am currently working with a high-low count, spreading 1-10 or 1-12, around a half-dozen indices so far. Nothing too unusual. At this point, the only thing unusual about the games I am playing are going to be various promotional things, such as a side bet I had the pleasure of playing this weekend that offered a nice positive EV even for a basic strategy player. The side bet was $0.50 and paid $10 for a blackjack, $25 for a suited blackjack, and various progressive amounts for other hands, such as 678, 777, etc. Even with the minimum amounts for each progressive ($100), the return was about $1 for each $0.50 side bet. The only downside is that I had to play 2 hands of 2 units in order to make one side bet per round. Will CVCX allow me to recalculate my optimal betting ramps for a given ROR under these circumstances?
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For what you describe, CVCX will probably suit you just fine, except for the side bet. CVCX is a convenient interface to pre-run simulations (made by CVDATA), and will give you EV, RoR, SCORE, optimal betting ramps, and plenty more.

Though if you're handy with a spreadsheet, you can also calculate most of this yourself. (I recommend doing both, so you really understand what's going on.)

CVDATA is the core "actual" simulator, and will handle a myriad of options and just about any situation you can describe, including side bets. Whether this is really necessary isn't clear; you might be ok with calculating the side bet yourself.
 
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Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
johndoe said:
For what you describe, CVCX will probably suit you just fine, except for the side bet. CVCX is a convenient interface to pre-run simulations (made by CVDATA), and will give you EV, RoR, SCORE, optimal betting ramps, and plenty more.

Though if you're handy with a spreadsheet, you can also calculate most of this yourself. (I recommend doing both, so you really understand what's going on.)

CVDATA is the core "actual" simulator, and will handle a myriad of options and just about any situation you can describe, including side bets. Whether this is really necessary isn't clear; you might be ok with calculating the side bet yourself.
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Thanks very much. So CVCX is sort of a look-up device to retrieve the thousands of included pre-run simulations, while CVData will allow true custom simulations? That's the piece of the puzzle I wasn't understanding. I think for now I'll probably go with CVBJ and CVCX, then consider adding CVData in the future.
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
monte_vv said:
I have been considering these products as well. Will CVCX provide full indicies for each simulation?
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No, it just uses standard index sets for various counts (I18, full, etc.) If you want to generate your own for whatever reason you need CVDATA.
 
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Meistro

Well-Known Member
Are sims really useful, given the wealth of information already out there? What BJ products in general - I guess books and basic strategy cards, for one - should I be looking into buying? Obv. the cost -> reward ratio is heavily in favour of almost anything. What are the absolute must buy items?
 
StandardDeviant

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
Meistro said:
Are sims really useful, given the wealth of information already out there?
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Yes. In addition to answering many questions, they can give you a feel for the game that it would otherwise take many thousand hours of play to develop.

Meistro said:
What BJ products in general ... should I be looking into buying?
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Software, in my view...

CVBJ - to practice playing, basic strategy, counting
CVCX - to understand bet ramps, risk of ruin, advantage, SCORE, etc.
CVData - to answer the many "What is the effect of ____" questions, and to generate indices​

If you happen to own an iPhone (ordered in sequence by value), in my view...

21 Pro - for practice playing, also contains a basic strategy card
Card Counting Practice - for, well, you guess... Note, only works with Hi-Lo
iFlipr - to create flashcards to memorize indices, or anything else for that matter
BJ Trainer - to practice basic strategy
​

Books (ordered in sequence by value), in my view...

Modern Blackjack (everything you need to know, almost, and it's free!)
Blackjack Attack (many useful tables and analyses)
Burning the Tables in Las Vegas (to learn casino comportment)
Blackbelt in Blackjack (a good overall primer)
Professional Blackjack (if you use Hi-Lo)
KO Blackjack (if you use KO)
The Theory of Blackjack (if you want to understand some of the math)
Comp City (to understand how the casino comp system works)​

DON'T BUY...DON'T BUY...DON'T BUY...

Just my opinion, but I advise you to skip the many DVD courses you can find online. They are relatively expensive, and the books and software above will give you what you need. And don't forget to take advantage of this forum. There are many very knowledgeable, and helpful experts here. (Some are even both knowledgeable and helpful! :laugh:)​

Meistro said:
Obv. the cost -> reward ratio is heavily in favour of almost anything.
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Right. You are (or will be) wagering thousands of dollars per hour. Isn't it worth an investment of a few hundred to know what you're doing?
 
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daniel27

Well-Known Member
StandardDeviant said:
Right. You are (or will be) wagering thousands of dollars per hour. Isn't it worth an investment of a few hundred to know what you're doing?
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i can´t agree more. i own cvdata and really helps when u have $$$ in the table run your own sims helps a lot.
 
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Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
Update

Thanks for the advice everyone. I just placed my order for CVBJ, CVCX, and CVData. I decided to get CVData now largely because of the side bet opportunity I have right now. I know that because the sidebet has a nice positive EV, my RoR will go down for the same game and same betting. As a result, if I don't change my betting, I will be underbetting my bankroll. If CVData can help me correctly resize my bets, it should add a nice amount to my hourly rate and pay for itself in short time. Also, since I don't want to get backed off from this game despite playing a significant number of hours, I'll use CVData to experiment with the cost of various types of cover, including playing with a smaller spread. Overall, I think the extra $110 will be money well spent.

Thanks again!
 
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