Why casinos use RFID?

[tribute]

One reason casinos utilize RFID chips is to track players action for comps. Do casinos use the information for any other reasons? Can AP's and their betting patterns be exposed more easily? Do casinos use the information to track wins and losses? Is a player's effort to rathole chips foiled by RFID systems?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

One reason casinos utilize RFID chips is to track players action for comps. Do casinos use the information for any other reasons? Can AP's and their betting patterns be exposed more easily? Do casinos use the information to track wins and losses? Is a player's effort to rathole chips foiled by RFID systems?

Yes, yes, yes, and maybe. I don't have enough experience messing around with RFID cheques yet to give you a reliable answer as to how to defeat them.

 

[shadroch]

Yes, yes, yes, and maybe. I don't have enough experience messing around with RFID cheques yet to give you a reliable answer as to how to defeat them.

Really? I thought it was fairly common knowledge.

 

[FLASH1296]

The only REAL use of RFID chips is to identify Card Counters.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Really? I thought it was fairly common knowledge.

Obviously not common enough that tribute knows.

Seriously, I've though of a few ways to defeat it or even exploit it but until I actually work with an RFID system I'm not going to risk getting anyone in trouble.

 

[ihate17]

Where money is made on RFID chips

The only REAL use of RFID chips is to identify Card Counters.

We are taking for granted here that the RFID chips are tied into some sort of table system and not just in big chips to ID counterfeits.

Most systems in use today will record every cent of every bet and then put into the computer the players current, average and high bet information. Without additional software or a complete table system, the casino can see that your low bet is $25, your high bet is $300 and your average bet is $45. Without someone counting down the shoe, they do not know you are counting and I constantly play along with other players who do not count but spread wildly. Your spread may make someone in the casino suspicious and they may begin a count down program on you, so keeping your sessions short is still important. Leaving shortly after several max bets is also important. This is not the key to why a casino purchases RFID chips, to the casino it is a side benefit.

The real benefit and money making for the casino comes from, less comps and less pits.
No longer can that friendly pit creature put you down for bigger bets than you actually play. No longer can you add comps to your account while at the restroom or when you wong out. The comp tricks are out!
Since the pit no longer needs to figure player's average bets the cutting of a floor person here and there becomes possible, saving the casino more money.

There are many more casinos with RFID than there are casinos with both RFID and systems like Mindplay.

ihate17

 

[21forme]

Do RFID chips look any different? If not, how do you know if a casino is using them?

 

[callipygian]

The only REAL use of RFID chips is to identify Card Counters.

I disagree that the real use of anything in a casino is to identify card counters. Even the most storied card counting teams brought in maybe a million a year - divided among all the casinos they hit. Given that gambling revenues for the big casinos are measured at billions per year (or at least high millions per year), you're dealing with fractions of a percent that card counters cost.

Surveillance's primary function is to catch thieves - employees stealing from the house, and pickpockets stealing from patrons. That it is also used to catch counters is a side benefit.

RFID chips' primary functions are to catch counterfeiters, money launderers, and identify marketing opportunities. That it is also (likely) used to catch counters is a side benefit.

Think about it - what's more valuable to you, knowing that some schmuck is spreading $25 to $200 on high counts, or knowing that Mr. Millionaire plays the Martingale at a $25 table?

 

[ccl]

every casino in Louisiana and some in MS that ive been to use the RFID chips and tables, one of the shift people told me it was simply to record an exact average bet to avoid comp hustling. im not so sure thats the reason

ccl

 

[Blue Efficacy]

every casino in Louisiana and some in MS that ive been to use the RFID chips and tables, one of the shift people told me it was simply to record an exact average bet to avoid comp hustling. im not so sure thats the reason

ccl

I'm sure this is the main reason, as well as counterfeiting. Lots of people spread their bets, so this system makes it a bit easier to tell the exact spread, but there still has to be an eye or a PC suspecting someone of counting.

Calculating bets for comps takes a lot of labor from PCs. RFID chips eliminate much of this need. I have noticed casinos that use these tend to have less of a floor presence. Between the labor and the comp hustling, that's where they get their biggest value from RFID equipped tables. Also, it's a good selling point that they can offer comps to red chippers who many casinos wouldn't waste time rating. It gets the low rolling ploppies in the door.

 

[shadroch]

RFID chips help casinos track their drink servers. This is far more important than people think.

 

[ccl]

i didnt think about that shadroch. The casinos here the dealer has to hit a button on the table when they deal out the hand, i think it may also track the hands per hour a dealer gets out. Ill have to ask one of the pit girls that i know there

ccl

 

[tribute]

Do RFID chips look any different? If not, how do you know if a casino is using them?

The chips look the same as any standard chip, but they have an imbedded "chip" inside. If a RFID system is in place you will see a button on the table felt. The dealer presses the button once all bets are placed. This activates a scanner which reads the chip denomination and records the total in the computer. Aside from this, I have heard some large chips, $1,000 and $5,000, are imbedded for additional tracking purposes so the casino can keep a better handle on their movement.